#homecmos IRC log for Wednesday, 2013-01-16

hozerwolfspraul: heh, well I had to ask :)07:26
nmz787dunno but someone might find this interesting http://memslab.blogspot.com/19:50
azonenberginteresting, they're using the same dopants i was going to20:03
soul-dalmost sounds as if your takinging a seat next to amstrong on oprah20:04
azonenberglol20:04
soul-dyup   i click and it's confirmed  some people dressup weirdly    that  weird uv-ish light  bet acid is involved somehwere20:06
azonenbergi need to go build myself some nice process control equipment for my hot plate and oven and spinner and such20:10
azonenbergalso, now that i have two microscopes20:10
azonenberg(well, two high power, four total)20:10
azonenbergi might be turning the amscope into a lithography tool permanently20:11
soul-dyeah still on to do list  do have nice  500C sensor i could abuse    still havent gotten aroudn to getting nice relais to switch oven  preferable  good enough to do    pid like control  but to cold in shed anyhow to do projects there20:14
azonenbergoh, and for my furnace (when i get it) i'd like to do a controller or at least instrumentation20:17
azonenbergit has a controller but its not remote capable20:18
soul-dfurnace sounds nice i want to have one to  that does 1600c  some day :P20:18
azonenbergthe one i'm looking at goes to 110020:18
azonenberghttp://mtixtl.com/1100CCompactMuffleFurnacewith30SegmentProgrammable-KSL-1100X-S.aspx20:18
azonenbergburstable to 1200 for an hour20:18
soul-dwell its not that hard to build even20:18
azonenbergyeah, i just dont yet trust myself to build something that will reach those temperatures without destroying itself :P20:19
soul-drefractory  stuff  proper blow tourch  or  if you can  build one on carbon rod  and lots of electricity  but geus that one probably is small20:19
soul-dive reached it  with metal working simple coal and  hair dryer  works nice20:20
azonenbergwell the hard part will be keeping sufficient purity to avoid contaminating stuff20:20
soul-dwould like to create  a bit of tamahagane  steel  to make own katana20:21
azonenbergoh, fun20:22
soul-dor  some  kitchen knifes as practice20:22
azonenbergeventually, when i get the time and cash20:22
azonenbergi want to build some 74xx chips20:22
azonenbergbut there are so manythings to do first20:22
azonenbergi need to make a sputtering system for example20:22
soul-dyeah  still have some  vhs   head i want to abuse as  spinner20:23
soul-dfor resit etc20:23
soul-dalthough  you probably could use any simple  motor instead one  that uses 8 coils20:24
azonenbergi want to use a bldc20:24
azonenbergbut the thing is, i want a vacuum chuck20:24
soul-dbldc ?20:24
azonenbergbrushless dc20:24
azonenbergand i want the entire lab set up on ethernet-connected process control systems20:25
azonenbergso i can use a few workstations to run everything20:25
soul-dwell those vhs are nifty contructed  it has  even routed  electric to the spinning head20:25
soul-dso maybe use it for  somthing else wher ei could use that20:25
azonenbergYeah20:25
azonenbergWell first things first, i have a thesis to finish :p20:26
soul-dby when ?20:28
azonenberg2-3 years20:28
soul-doh still pretty long time20:29
azonenbergyeah20:29
soul-dbut indeed to much to do :P  should read  a bit on steppers and build simeple x,y or somthing still want to do stuff like that  but if you want some stability  you probably end up getting some expensive parts :(20:33
azonenberglol yeah20:34
Synchmm20:46
Syncwhen I'm through my exam session I'll try to build my spinner idea20:47
azonenbergnice20:47
SyncI also have a glass lathe on the backburner20:47
azonenberghttp://i.imgur.com/jatz2.jpg20:47
azonenbergJust took this pic of a Microchip ENC424J600 optically20:47
Syncfor cleanliness I'd use a stainless box inside the oven20:48
azonenberglooks like ~600nm pitch on the top metal layer20:48
azonenbergi'm very impressed with the Olympus objectives considering this was only a 40x, not a 100x20:48
SyncI tried that for heat treating steel in a nitrogen atmosphere20:48
azonenbergand it's picking up significantly submicron features20:48
Syncholy shit it is dense20:48
azonenbergLol, this is a ~180nm device20:49
azonenbergAnd it's full density all the way up20:49
Syncyeah no shit :D20:49
azonenbergBy comparison like a 45nm device will usually have a couple of really big pitch, like 5 micron, layers on top for power routing20:50
azonenberghttp://siliconpr0n.org/wiki/doku.php?id=process_tech is the database of process tech i'v ebeen working on20:50
Syncit is interesting when you look in the numbers for process size and amount of devices built20:51
azonenberghow so?20:51
azonenbergalso, any comments on improvements for that page?20:51
Synca LOT (the most actually) are made using really big features20:52
Syncbecause the fabs are paid off and they will make you parts for next to nothing20:52
Syncbecause copper is more susceptible to electromigration than aluminum is. (see Wikipedia article on electromigration) because copper is more susceptible to electromigration.20:54
Syncwat20:55
Syncand blah my internet is teh lag atm20:55
azonenbergSync: good catch20:55
Synchehe21:00
Syncthe indicator I just bought is able to resolve 500nm21:00
azonenberglol nice21:01
Syncmahr extramess 200121:02
nmz787would you try to make a stepper with a DLP and microscope with servos/steppers on the XY knobs for coarse, then move the image around the pixels for fine alignment?23:27
nmz787I wonder how small you could get features, like if you used purple light23:27
azonenbergI'd use 405nm UV23:27
azonenbergas LEDs and lasers for that are easy to come by23:27
nmz787yeah23:27
azonenbergi'll shoot for 10 microns at first, then try to scale down to 123:28
nmz787i saw using red for alignment purposes, with feedback for DLP image placement via a webcam in a split of the beam path23:28
azonenbergInteresting23:28
azonenbergmakes sense23:28
nmz787i can't remember if you sent me that or i found it the same day23:29
azonenbergmy thinking was to have camera in the top port and the laser/led in the eyepiece of the microscope23:29
nmz787using DLP for mask?23:29
soul-doh wait  i had in idea  maybe abuse  such  cd  drive sled thingy with worm wheel on it23:30
nmz787for what exactly?23:31
soul-dfocusing or somthing the like23:31
nmz787direct laser write exposure?23:31
azonenbergno, i was actually thinking of doing LDI23:31
azonenbergwith a moving stage and a fixed laser head23:31
soul-dyou probavbly could abuse the sled23:31
nmz787LDI?23:31
azonenberglaser direct imaging23:31
nmz787hmm, what would you use as a fiducial ?23:32
azonenbergthe camera would have some feedback mechanism23:33
azonenbergto recognize alignment marks on the wafer23:33
nmz787but what?23:33
azonenbergidk, depends on how my vision software works out23:33
azonenberginitially probably just crosses23:33
nmz787how would you get the marks there in each FOV area?23:33
azonenbergIt'd be dead reckoning from the last mark, probably23:35
azonenbergwith encoders on the stage23:35
azonenbergthe first marks would be done at random somewhere on the die and the rest would align to them23:35
nmz787hmm23:51
Syncmeh I hate labview23:54
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