| --- Fri May 11 2012 | 00:00 | |
| B0101 | hello azonenberg | 07:53 |
|---|---|---|
| azonenberg | jo | 07:53 |
| B0101 | its believed that in 10 years time, moores law will no longer be scalable to build new systems | 07:54 |
| B0101 | do you agree? | 07:55 |
| azonenberg | I havent kept on top of the physics | 08:15 |
| azonenberg | but densities wont be able to increase forever in 2D | 08:15 |
| azonenberg | once you get to single-atom dimensions thats it | 08:15 |
| azonenberg | at that point the only way to go is up | 08:15 |
| B0101 | 3d chips? | 08:24 |
| azonenberg | Yep | 08:24 |
| B0101 | then what? Bio computing? Quantum Computing? | 08:25 |
| azonenberg | No idea | 08:25 |
| azonenberg | but i do know that there's a lot of untapped potential in 3d | 08:25 |
| azonenberg | if people can figure out how to cool them at least | 08:25 |
| azonenberg | But you know what's going to have to happen eventually? | 08:25 |
| azonenberg | People will realize that javascript is not the future | 08:26 |
| azonenberg | That wasting resources and hoping the next-generation computers will be able to run your code | 08:26 |
| azonenberg | Is a bad idea | 08:26 |
| azonenberg | Because one day, they won't be able to | 08:26 |
| B0101 | but then... most of our websites are run using Javascript | 08:27 |
| azonenberg | Maybe people will realize one day that active content isnt the greatest idea | 08:27 |
| azonenberg | and that stuff can be made much more lightweight and efficient | 08:27 |
| azonenberg | with less frills | 08:27 |
| B0101 | ah, but if they do not realize it, then we have to wait for the collapse of the internet | 08:29 |
| azonenberg | Well, one day we will have Web 4.0 | 08:30 |
| azonenberg | all text and content | 08:30 |
| azonenberg | minimal fuss, no clientside plugins or scripting | 08:30 |
| azonenberg | just data | 08:30 |
| azonenberg | no flashy nonsense, no videos, no banner ads | 08:30 |
| B0101 | for some reason, some sites won't allow you to type alphanumeric passwords with symbols | 08:34 |
| azonenberg | Incredibly annoying | 08:34 |
| azonenberg | i use symbols in my passwords all the time | 08:34 |
| azonenberg | because a lot of people don't guess them | 08:34 |
| azonenberg | so in addition to increasing entropy against a dedicated bruteforce, you might be *impossible* for someome to break using a casual search that only does alphanumeric | 08:35 |
| B0101 | its more annoying when the site in question is a network remote administration site | 08:36 |
| B0101 | but then, i don't feel safe using a network administration site outside my network | 08:37 |
| B0101 | and some admins still use easy to break algorithms to "secure" their networks | 08:41 |
| B0101 | one example is WEP | 08:42 |
| azonenberg | Lol | 08:42 |
| azonenberg | Weak Encryption Protocol | 08:42 |
| azonenberg | :p | 08:42 |
| azonenberg | or Worthless, your choice | 08:42 |
| azonenberg | The only remote administration i trust is a VPN using certificate based (no passwords) authentication | 08:43 |
| azonenberg | 4096 bit RSA + AES-256 is enough to keep most hackers out i think | 08:43 |
| azonenberg | then SSH inside that to the specific host of interest, also certificate based auth only | 08:43 |
| B0101 | that should be safe, but really though, the only safe machine is the machine that is never turned on | 08:44 |
| azonenberg | Airgapping is pretty good too | 08:44 |
| azonenberg | the world's most effective firewall | 08:44 |
| azonenberg | an inch of air between the NIC and the cable | 08:44 |
| azonenberg | at that point your only holes are shared media and physical access | 08:45 |
| B0101 | ah | 08:47 |
| soul-d | wich still is a problem since half of the "hackers" are disgruntled employees | 08:53 |
| azonenberg | soul-d: True, but it's pretty good at keeping the other half out | 08:53 |
| azonenberg | Which is a start | 08:53 |
| azonenberg | To catch insiders you need good auditing | 08:53 |
| soul-d | other then that i can only hope ure right | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | ideally using methods like streaming syslog to an offsite server only the most senior people | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | have access to | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | so you can break in but will hopefully leave tracks in the process | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | that you cant later remove | 08:54 |
| soul-d | webroswer these day's need to much resources like 1 gb ~ mem | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | soul-d: lol, yes | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | Its ridiculous | 08:54 |
| azonenberg | The laptop i'm building is going to be super simple and probably use like 32KB of ram per page or somethign like that | 08:55 |
| azonenberg | not counting graphics | 08:55 |
| azonenberg | i have some interesting ideas to get good performance without using tons of memory or cpu | 08:55 |
| azonenberg | as a minimum, pages should be "frozen" when not active | 08:55 |
| azonenberg | and not use any CPU if they arent actually being displayed | 08:55 |
| azonenberg | just dont send any events | 08:55 |
| B0101 | then what about the operating system? | 08:56 |
| azonenberg | I'm expecting the OS will start up in about 1500ms | 08:57 |
| azonenberg | using maybe a megabyte or two of ram | 08:57 |
| azonenberg | i have some pretty radical ideas on how to do a no-frills design | 08:57 |
| azonenberg | they arent flashy enough to make money from the masses (android and iOS, i'm looking at you) but i'm pretty sure i can get them to work | 08:57 |
| B0101 | hmm, i saw like a web browser for MS-DOS. don't remember its name but its quite fast for a GUI DOS browser | 08:59 |
| azonenberg | Yeah, thats the type of thing i'm looking for | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | bare bones, support most HTML and CSS | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | but no scripting | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | no flash | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | no video, no animated gifs | 09:00 |
| soul-d | only knoq lynx for linux | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | soul-d: dillo is the next step up from lynx | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | but doesnt support CSS properly | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | which makes it unusable for most modern sites | 09:00 |
| azonenberg | if it did. it'd be my main browser | 09:01 |
| soul-d | true never gotten used to it but liked the idea and windows stay responsive i realy hate when comp is locked up or gets unresponsive cause of a flash thing | 09:04 |
| azonenberg | Yeah | 09:04 |
| azonenberg | Thats why my goal is basically to reinvent computing based on minimalism | 09:04 |
| azonenberg | more secure since you have less code | 09:04 |
| azonenberg | and less code = less bugs | 09:05 |
| azonenberg | faster, more reliable | 09:05 |
| azonenberg | less bloat | 09:05 |
| B0101 | bloat though is what makes microsoft and apple rich | 09:06 |
| soul-d | would like to see system where the input is sperated from the actual procceses so that there alway's is some control if the computing area is locked or slow | 09:06 |
| azonenberg | B0101: exactly | 09:06 |
| azonenberg | nobody will get rich off an operating system that doesnt have sexy new features every release | 09:06 |
| azonenberg | but i dont want to get rich | 09:06 |
| azonenberg | i want an OS that gets its job done | 09:07 |
| azonenberg | and fades into the background so i can pretend its not there | 09:07 |
| soul-d | i installed windows 7 with some trouble did liked it for a bit until the weird stuff happens | 09:07 |
| azonenberg | well in a few years, by the end of my phd, i should have some pretty nice stuff lol | 09:07 |
| B0101 | sad to think that they are trying to phase out multi boot from the new motherboards though | 09:07 |
| soul-d | if your goals is money you won't find the motivation to do it anyhow | 09:07 |
| azonenberg | what do you mean, phase out multiboot? | 09:08 |
| azonenberg | and i've given up on stock hardware a while ago | 09:08 |
| azonenberg | Hence why i'm building my own | 09:08 |
| azonenberg | from scratch | 09:08 |
| B0101 | own motherboards? | 09:08 |
| azonenberg | yeah | 09:08 |
| B0101 | that will be easy to program (you know the hardware) | 09:09 |
| soul-d | i think he means the thing where microsoft wanted some bios fueture to lockout linux or not signed osses ? | 09:09 |
| azonenberg | Mandating signed code is *good* from a security perspective | 09:09 |
| azonenberg | iff | 09:09 |
| azonenberg | the owner can add new root CAs | 09:09 |
| azonenberg | and remove existing ones | 09:09 |
| azonenberg | Beacuse it means i can untrust m$ and trust Debian, for example | 09:10 |
| azonenberg | or only trust code i've compiled myself | 09:10 |
| soul-d | yeah but i geuss only microsoft wanted to dictated what gets added :) | 09:10 |
| azonenberg | Yes | 09:10 |
| azonenberg | and that is a problem | 09:10 |
| azonenberg | But like i said i've given up on stock hardware | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | i'm building for reliability and stability | 09:11 |
| soul-d | was looking at new gfxcard | 09:11 |
| soul-d | crazy prices | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | not maximum speed for a few days, then break :p | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | My stuff will likely cost more than stock, no bulk discount | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | but it'll get the job done | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | first step is to cut out x86 | 09:11 |
| azonenberg | my prototype platform is mips, i may use arm at some point too | 09:12 |
| B0101 | what are you going to use for the northbridge and southbridge? | 09:13 |
| azonenberg | I won't be having either, per se | 09:13 |
| azonenberg | on-chip memory controller in the current prototype | 09:13 |
| azonenberg | its more of a SoC design | 09:13 |
| azonenberg | my FPGA version has an 80 MHz MIPS-1 running on it now and i will likely move to the Zynq Z-7000 series at some point | 09:14 |
| azonenberg | which has an 800 MHz dual core cortex a9 | 09:14 |
| azonenberg | and an FPGA | 09:14 |
| azonenberg | combine that with an open source gpu on the fpga, no binary blob drivers needed | 09:14 |
| azonenberg | a gig or so of DDR3 | 09:14 |
| B0101 | ah | 09:15 |
| azonenberg | like i said i'm planning to go for extreme simplicity | 09:15 |
| soul-d | another advantage is that hackers are unlikly to target your system | 09:15 |
| azonenberg | Thats only as long as i'm off the radar | 09:16 |
| azonenberg | if it gains traction it will become a target | 09:16 |
| azonenberg | however the simpler it is, the less code there is to find bugs in | 09:16 |
| azonenberg | like i said give me a few years | 09:16 |
| azonenberg | i'm kind of writing a phd thesis on this | 09:16 |
| B0101 | well, less publicity = less crackers | 09:16 |
| azonenberg | so i dont have all the answers yet | 09:16 |
| soul-d | but internet will change sooner or later some crapy webpage these day's wants money if you block there crapy ad scripts | 09:24 |
| azonenberg | soul-d: all that means | 09:24 |
| azonenberg | is that you need to find a way to block them more subtly | 09:24 |
| azonenberg | i've never met an ad i couldnt beat | 09:24 |
| soul-d | ih they get blocked still but sites noticed it and pops up a msg saying they want you to pay montly if you want to read the site | 09:25 |
| soul-d | basicly digging it's own end | 09:25 |
| azonenberg | yeah | 09:25 |
| azonenberg | the more intrusive it is, the more effort i'm willing to spend on defeating it | 09:25 |
| soul-d | indeed | 09:25 |
| soul-d | or stuff like spoiler tags only readable if your member of forum :') | 09:26 |
| azonenberg | well stuff that needs server side logins is a bit more of a pain | 09:27 |
| soul-d | oh it's a "public" forum ( not realy that intresting except like going to local slumps for kicks see what all the weird people are ranting about today ? ) | 09:28 |
| soul-d | sorta a news site but pretty much back to old day's since they buy the news from official news feeds and rewrite them :) | 09:30 |
| Action: B0101 does not understand why some people can drive backwards at high speed... o_O | 09:30 | |
| azonenberg | Are they driving forwards at the same time? | 09:30 |
| azonenberg | Differential drivers do exist, you know ;) | 09:31 |
| soul-d | id prolbably have trouble going forward correctly :P | 09:33 |
| azonenberg | i sometimes jokingly wonder if the bus service at my school would be faster | 09:34 |
| azonenberg | if they hired differential drivers | 09:34 |
| azonenberg | Differential buses can run safely at higher speeds, right? ;) | 09:34 |
| Action: B0101 recovers from brain crash while thinking about vehicles with 2 steering wheels... | 09:39 | |
| azonenberg | lol | 09:39 |
| soul-d | last coffee see if i can get brain started off for then day | 09:44 |
| soul-d | should realy block news sites lol only make you depressive | 09:48 |
| azonenberg | Lol | 09:49 |
| soul-d | maybe keep it to news like " http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/ " much less irritation there | 09:55 |
| B0101 | lol | 09:56 |
| azonenberg | <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund --> | 10:13 |
| soul-d | heh | 10:19 |
| --- Sat May 12 2012 | 00:00 | |
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