#homecmos IRC log for Friday, 2012-02-24

Flea86o/23:17
azonenbergo hai23:17
azonenbergIts been quiet in here because i'm busy with classes and dont have too much time to work on stuff23:17
azonenbergone of the many things i need to explore is what it'd take to get a metal-ion-free developer for photoresist23:18
azonenbergTMAH is a possibility23:18
azonenbergi also want to see if ammonia works23:18
Flea86So basically, the purpose of this channel is to explore kitchen-table asic manufacturing? :)23:19
azonenbergmore like living room/basement23:20
azonenbergand my lab is  a bit more sophisticated than most hobbyists'23:20
Flea86I seem to recall Jeri Ellsworth etching her own mosfets into pre-cut silicon wafers..23:21
azonenbergFlea86: yes23:21
Flea86at home.. :)23:21
azonenbergshe was the original inspiration23:21
azonenbergBut that was at millimeter scale23:21
azonenbergone of the goals is to shrink her process down to a few microns23:21
Flea86At first I thought it was pure bollocks, then I thought she had gone completely mad lol23:22
azonenbergNope23:22
azonenberghttp://homecmos.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/images/die_i4_009_fullres.jpg23:22
azonenbergSEM photo of 20 micron wires, copper on silicon23:22
azonenbergfrom an earlier test23:22
Flea86copper on silicon aye? nice!23:22
Flea86:323:22
azonenbergwet etched, not damascene23:23
Flea86I've also been fascinated at what *could* be done simply by using oxides of copper, however, unity-gain-and-above devices are not one of them.. :/23:26
azonenbergI intend to do doped silicon devices as soon as i have around $2k to spare23:27
azonenbergto buy $250 each P and N type dopant solutions and a $1k furnace for diffusion23:28
azonenbergJust have to do some more research on other stuff first23:28
azonenbergfor example, building a nicer spin coater23:28
Flea86:)23:29
azonenbergWhich reminds me i should start the CAD on that soon23:29
superkuhWhat CAD program do you use?23:29
azonenbergStill looking for a good free one23:30
azonenbergfor mechanical cad, that is, not mask design23:31
azonenbergthe one i've been using so far is an educational copy of autodesk inventor23:31
Flea86azonenberg: What's wrong with inventor, are there any 'limits' imposed on that package?23:32
azonenbergThe educational version?23:33
azonenbergThe license expires after one year, after which you have to still be a student to renew it23:33
azonenbergand the files are permanently marked "created with educational version" on printouts etc23:33
azonenbergeven if opened in the full version23:33
azonenbergalso, it doesnt run on linux23:33
azonenbergthats one of the few reasons i keep a winblows VM sitting around23:34
Flea86"<azonenberg> and the files are permanently marked "created with educational version" on printouts etc" Yeah this'd pretty much ruin it for me too :P23:34
azonenbergIts fine for personal projects like i'm doing now23:34
azonenbergbut its still a potential problem23:35
azonenbergthe bigger problem is not having a native linux release23:35
azonenbergsolidworks doesnt either23:35
azonenbergunigraphics does but NX is... a bit buggy23:35
azonenberglast time i checked23:35
Flea86azonenberg: So what kind of mechanical CAD stuff do you need it to do?23:36
Flea862/3D modelling etc?23:36
azonenbergbasic 3d parametric cad23:36
azonenbergand possibly simple simulation but nothing too advanced23:36
Flea86Ah23:36
azonenbergin this case, designing a spin coater23:36
Flea86azonenberg: Perhaps you could try running inventor under wine??23:38
Action: Flea86 runs23:38
azonenbergDid so23:38
azonenbergi filed a half dozen bug reports23:38
azonenbergand last time i checked not all are fixed23:38
Flea86lol oh..23:38
Flea86:<23:38
azonenbergbug reports, mind you23:38
azonenbergagainst the setup executable23:38
azonenbergit wouldnt even install23:38
Flea86x.x23:38
Flea86I guess it just shows wine is only good for windows games, if anything..23:39
azonenbergits just that games are what they put the most priority on bugfix wise23:39
Flea86yeah23:40
azonenbergin the longer term i'm thinking of buying a full copy of solidworks and just running it in a vmware system23:40
azonenbergits $4k though23:40
Flea86azonenberg: Apparently one can also lease solidworks as well :)23:41
Flea86(Though I have not yet done so myself)23:42
azonenbergI'd want to buy one version and just stick with it23:43
SyncI use varicad for 2D and 3D cad natively under linux23:43
azonenbergthen get a nice linux cnc machining shop set up23:43
azonenbergSync: tried varicad23:43
Syncit is not great but it works23:43
azonenbergwasnt a fan, its not parametric23:43
azonenbergits like autocad extended to 3d23:43
Flea86azonenberg: In that case, I suggest you look at vectorcam 3D :D23:44
SyncI could care less about it being parametric23:44
azonenbergparametric is the absolute minimum requirement for a 3d tool23:44
azonenbergmy workflow requires being able to continually experiment and tweak dimensions etc23:45
SyncI usually use catia now, but it is akward to use in a virtualbox23:46
azonenbergi *want* something like inventor but open source and native linux23:46
azonenbergbut nobody seems to be working on such a tool23:46
azonenbergand i dont have the time/skills to make one myself23:46
Flea86azonenberg: Yeah, parametric 3d isn't one of vectorcam's strongpoints, although cnc cam is.. }:A23:50
azonenbergCAM is no good without a model to fab though23:51
Action: Flea86 lags23:54
Flea86azonenberg: Well all I've seen so far suggests solidworks works well enough :)23:55
Flea86http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/files/images/exploded.PNG23:55
azonenbergoh, its a great tool - if you are running on winblows23:56
Flea86azonenberg: I wouldn't worry too much about the underlying os.. you're just limiting yourself imho23:57
azonenbergthe issue is that getting good performance in a VM is a pain23:57
azonenbergall of my machines run linux natively23:57
azonenbergand i am not gonna buy a new computer just to do cad23:57
Flea86azonenberg: Well what do you have now?23:58
azonenbergRight now i have a laptop running debian 623:58
azonenbergwith vmware win7 running autodesk inventor student version23:59
Syncyeah I'm running a machine just for EDA here, just more conveniant23:59
azonenbergSync: i do all of my electronics work natively23:59
azonenbergmplab and ISE have native linux builds23:59
azonenbergand kicad is native as well23:59
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