| Flea86 | o/ | 23:17 |
|---|---|---|
| azonenberg | o hai | 23:17 |
| azonenberg | Its been quiet in here because i'm busy with classes and dont have too much time to work on stuff | 23:17 |
| azonenberg | one of the many things i need to explore is what it'd take to get a metal-ion-free developer for photoresist | 23:18 |
| azonenberg | TMAH is a possibility | 23:18 |
| azonenberg | i also want to see if ammonia works | 23:18 |
| Flea86 | So basically, the purpose of this channel is to explore kitchen-table asic manufacturing? :) | 23:19 |
| azonenberg | more like living room/basement | 23:20 |
| azonenberg | and my lab is a bit more sophisticated than most hobbyists' | 23:20 |
| Flea86 | I seem to recall Jeri Ellsworth etching her own mosfets into pre-cut silicon wafers.. | 23:21 |
| azonenberg | Flea86: yes | 23:21 |
| Flea86 | at home.. :) | 23:21 |
| azonenberg | she was the original inspiration | 23:21 |
| azonenberg | But that was at millimeter scale | 23:21 |
| azonenberg | one of the goals is to shrink her process down to a few microns | 23:21 |
| Flea86 | At first I thought it was pure bollocks, then I thought she had gone completely mad lol | 23:22 |
| azonenberg | Nope | 23:22 |
| azonenberg | http://homecmos.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/images/die_i4_009_fullres.jpg | 23:22 |
| azonenberg | SEM photo of 20 micron wires, copper on silicon | 23:22 |
| azonenberg | from an earlier test | 23:22 |
| Flea86 | copper on silicon aye? nice! | 23:22 |
| Flea86 | :3 | 23:22 |
| azonenberg | wet etched, not damascene | 23:23 |
| Flea86 | I've also been fascinated at what *could* be done simply by using oxides of copper, however, unity-gain-and-above devices are not one of them.. :/ | 23:26 |
| azonenberg | I intend to do doped silicon devices as soon as i have around $2k to spare | 23:27 |
| azonenberg | to buy $250 each P and N type dopant solutions and a $1k furnace for diffusion | 23:28 |
| azonenberg | Just have to do some more research on other stuff first | 23:28 |
| azonenberg | for example, building a nicer spin coater | 23:28 |
| Flea86 | :) | 23:29 |
| azonenberg | Which reminds me i should start the CAD on that soon | 23:29 |
| superkuh | What CAD program do you use? | 23:29 |
| azonenberg | Still looking for a good free one | 23:30 |
| azonenberg | for mechanical cad, that is, not mask design | 23:31 |
| azonenberg | the one i've been using so far is an educational copy of autodesk inventor | 23:31 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: What's wrong with inventor, are there any 'limits' imposed on that package? | 23:32 |
| azonenberg | The educational version? | 23:33 |
| azonenberg | The license expires after one year, after which you have to still be a student to renew it | 23:33 |
| azonenberg | and the files are permanently marked "created with educational version" on printouts etc | 23:33 |
| azonenberg | even if opened in the full version | 23:33 |
| azonenberg | also, it doesnt run on linux | 23:33 |
| azonenberg | thats one of the few reasons i keep a winblows VM sitting around | 23:34 |
| Flea86 | "<azonenberg> and the files are permanently marked "created with educational version" on printouts etc" Yeah this'd pretty much ruin it for me too :P | 23:34 |
| azonenberg | Its fine for personal projects like i'm doing now | 23:34 |
| azonenberg | but its still a potential problem | 23:35 |
| azonenberg | the bigger problem is not having a native linux release | 23:35 |
| azonenberg | solidworks doesnt either | 23:35 |
| azonenberg | unigraphics does but NX is... a bit buggy | 23:35 |
| azonenberg | last time i checked | 23:35 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: So what kind of mechanical CAD stuff do you need it to do? | 23:36 |
| Flea86 | 2/3D modelling etc? | 23:36 |
| azonenberg | basic 3d parametric cad | 23:36 |
| azonenberg | and possibly simple simulation but nothing too advanced | 23:36 |
| Flea86 | Ah | 23:36 |
| azonenberg | in this case, designing a spin coater | 23:36 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: Perhaps you could try running inventor under wine?? | 23:38 |
| Action: Flea86 runs | 23:38 | |
| azonenberg | Did so | 23:38 |
| azonenberg | i filed a half dozen bug reports | 23:38 |
| azonenberg | and last time i checked not all are fixed | 23:38 |
| Flea86 | lol oh.. | 23:38 |
| Flea86 | :< | 23:38 |
| azonenberg | bug reports, mind you | 23:38 |
| azonenberg | against the setup executable | 23:38 |
| azonenberg | it wouldnt even install | 23:38 |
| Flea86 | x.x | 23:38 |
| Flea86 | I guess it just shows wine is only good for windows games, if anything.. | 23:39 |
| azonenberg | its just that games are what they put the most priority on bugfix wise | 23:39 |
| Flea86 | yeah | 23:40 |
| azonenberg | in the longer term i'm thinking of buying a full copy of solidworks and just running it in a vmware system | 23:40 |
| azonenberg | its $4k though | 23:40 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: Apparently one can also lease solidworks as well :) | 23:41 |
| Flea86 | (Though I have not yet done so myself) | 23:42 |
| azonenberg | I'd want to buy one version and just stick with it | 23:43 |
| Sync | I use varicad for 2D and 3D cad natively under linux | 23:43 |
| azonenberg | then get a nice linux cnc machining shop set up | 23:43 |
| azonenberg | Sync: tried varicad | 23:43 |
| Sync | it is not great but it works | 23:43 |
| azonenberg | wasnt a fan, its not parametric | 23:43 |
| azonenberg | its like autocad extended to 3d | 23:43 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: In that case, I suggest you look at vectorcam 3D :D | 23:44 |
| Sync | I could care less about it being parametric | 23:44 |
| azonenberg | parametric is the absolute minimum requirement for a 3d tool | 23:44 |
| azonenberg | my workflow requires being able to continually experiment and tweak dimensions etc | 23:45 |
| Sync | I usually use catia now, but it is akward to use in a virtualbox | 23:46 |
| azonenberg | i *want* something like inventor but open source and native linux | 23:46 |
| azonenberg | but nobody seems to be working on such a tool | 23:46 |
| azonenberg | and i dont have the time/skills to make one myself | 23:46 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: Yeah, parametric 3d isn't one of vectorcam's strongpoints, although cnc cam is.. }:A | 23:50 |
| azonenberg | CAM is no good without a model to fab though | 23:51 |
| Action: Flea86 lags | 23:54 | |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: Well all I've seen so far suggests solidworks works well enough :) | 23:55 |
| Flea86 | http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/files/images/exploded.PNG | 23:55 |
| azonenberg | oh, its a great tool - if you are running on winblows | 23:56 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: I wouldn't worry too much about the underlying os.. you're just limiting yourself imho | 23:57 |
| azonenberg | the issue is that getting good performance in a VM is a pain | 23:57 |
| azonenberg | all of my machines run linux natively | 23:57 |
| azonenberg | and i am not gonna buy a new computer just to do cad | 23:57 |
| Flea86 | azonenberg: Well what do you have now? | 23:58 |
| azonenberg | Right now i have a laptop running debian 6 | 23:58 |
| azonenberg | with vmware win7 running autodesk inventor student version | 23:59 |
| Sync | yeah I'm running a machine just for EDA here, just more conveniant | 23:59 |
| azonenberg | Sync: i do all of my electronics work natively | 23:59 |
| azonenberg | mplab and ISE have native linux builds | 23:59 |
| azonenberg | and kicad is native as well | 23:59 |
| --- Sat Feb 25 2012 | 00:00 | |
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