| azonenberg | barrettfriedman: But the thing is, if you sputter over the resist | 01:02 |
|---|---|---|
| azonenberg | Odds are pretty good that the sidewalls will be somewhat conductive | 01:02 |
| azonenberg | may not be 100% covered to the same thickness as the tops, but there will be stuff there | 01:02 |
| azonenberg | And, furthermore, if you then dip it in solvent it may not separate cleanly or at all | 01:03 |
| azonenberg | on the other hand if you use evaporation i suppose it's possible to do what you want, but that's only if your design involves a single metal deposition step | 01:03 |
| azonenberg | also, what are you trying to deposit? Liftoff is generally only used for materials that are difficult or impossible to etch | 01:04 |
| azonenberg | because it can lead to high edge roughness as well as pretty much limiting your deposition method to evaporation | 01:05 |
| azonenberg | whereas conventional lithography can be used to pattern almost anything | 01:05 |
| Sync | interesting | 01:27 |
| Sync | neat little belljar azonenberg | 01:32 |
| azonenberg | Sync: ty | 01:32 |
| azonenberg | Not mine technically, was bought by a company i did consulting with last year | 01:33 |
| azonenberg | But they said i could hold onto it and use it for whatever i want | 01:33 |
| azonenberg | as long as they get to use it if they need it back in the future | 01:33 |
| Sync | but probably not up to spec for some high vacuum work | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | Sync: I was planning to turn it into a sputter coater | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | i can hit adequate vac for sputtering with the mechanical pump there | 01:34 |
| Sync | how low does it go? | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | I do need to redo some of the fittings, we totally disassembled it to find a leak | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | Of all the places to be leaking, the Pirani gauge :p | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | so i need a new one | 01:34 |
| azonenberg | We had it down to high tens of mtorr, maybe 60ish? The pump is rated for 40 but we had a slow leak | 01:35 |
| Sync | you can probably seal it with regular epoxy | 01:35 |
| azonenberg | That's easily deep enough for DC sputtering | 01:35 |
| Sync | well, I'm currently shopping for a vacuumchamber of my own | 01:35 |
| azonenberg | How far do you want to go? | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | I eventually would like to get deep enough for evaporation | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | The fittings on that chamber are def not good enough | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | But the jar and plate might be | 01:36 |
| Sync | well, I have a rubber sealed turbo, but can get metal gaskets for it | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | You have a turbomolecular pump? o_O | 01:36 |
| Sync | and four dual stage rotary vanes | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | Very nice | 01:37 |
| Sync | well okay, two, two are fubar | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | The pump i have is a dual stage rotary vane | 01:37 |
| Sync | I have a leybold d4b and a d8b working | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | My pump is a less fancy brand, i forget what | 01:37 |
| Sync | the others are ilmvac devices, used in chemical service and corroded to death | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | But it hit 40mtorr when we attached it straight to the pirani gauge | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | And we got the entire bell jar assembly down to below 100 | 01:38 |
| azonenberg | before the leak got worse | 01:38 |
| azonenberg | When i have $1k ish to spare i want to rip it all out and put in KF16 or KF25 fittings | 01:38 |
| Sync | eh, that's only like 5^-2mbar ): | 01:38 |
| azonenberg | thats what we priced them out as | 01:38 |
| azonenberg | that would allow me to go nice and deep if i had a suitable pump | 01:38 |
| Sync | I spent less than that on my vacuum equipment | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | the base is a solid chunk of metal | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | Sync: that was for new | 01:39 |
| Sync | but the biggest problem will be the seal on the bottom | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | the albany valve and fitting company is like 10 mins from my apartment | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | You mean baseplate to jar? | 01:39 |
| Sync | yes | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | Or baseplate to pipe | 01:39 |
| Sync | baseplate to jar, you really want viton there | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | We have it | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | viton + dow corning high vacuum grease | 01:39 |
| Sync | yay, I got some pfpe grease for cheap | 01:40 |
| azonenberg | the limiting factor was the leak | 01:40 |
| azonenberg | and once i fix it, probably the pump | 01:40 |
| azonenberg | But again for dc sputtering i dont *need* to go that low | 01:40 |
| Sync | http://sync-hv.de/hi-vac/bpg400.jpg those are nice | 01:41 |
| azonenberg | whats that? | 01:42 |
| azonenberg | fitting looks like a KF40 or so | 01:42 |
| Sync | no, it's kf25 | 01:42 |
| azonenberg | ah, and what is the device? | 01:43 |
| Sync | it's a bpg400 combined bayard-alpert and pirani gauge | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | ooh | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | whats the effective range? | 01:43 |
| Sync | atm - 10^-9 | 01:43 |
| Sync | 10^-11 on the new generation | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | *wants* | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | yours? | 01:43 |
| Sync | yes | 01:43 |
| Sync | I also own a mass spec | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | what'd it cost you, and what would it cost new | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | o_O | 01:43 |
| azonenberg | the gauge, not the spec | 01:43 |
| Sync | the gauges were more expensive than the spec | 01:44 |
| Sync | they were 150 | 01:44 |
| Sync | new, uuh around 1k | 01:44 |
| Sync | http://sync-hv.de/hi-vac/spectrometer.jpg small quadrupole RGA | 01:45 |
| azonenberg | Not familiar enough with specs to know anything about that | 01:45 |
| azonenberg | My goals for tooling involve building a DC sputtering system (argon only at first, maybe add N2/O2 inlets for reactive sputtering later) | 01:46 |
| azonenberg | and a filament evaporator | 01:46 |
| azonenberg | Then in the long term maybe an electron microscope | 01:46 |
| Sync | I still bite my ass that I did not bid more on the varian scroll pumps here | 01:47 |
| azonenberg | But in the time it'd take to build one i'm thinking i could probably save up for a real one | 01:47 |
| Sync | maybe I can get one from work when it need overhaul | 01:47 |
| Sync | then I could run pure o2 | 01:47 |
| azonenberg | I want a SEM | 01:47 |
| azonenberg | I have nowhere to put one in this apt but when i get a place of my own | 01:47 |
| Sync | I'd like to have the old ion implanter here that oxidizes at the university | 01:49 |
| azonenberg | lol, ion implanter? That would be convenient all right | 01:49 |
| azonenberg | homemade SIMOX? | 01:49 |
| Sync | well, I operate on as a job | 01:49 |
| Sync | +e | 01:49 |
| azonenberg | nice | 01:49 |
| Sync | or rather, I stand in front of it and scream at it that it does what I want from it | 01:49 |
| azonenberg | you a cleanroom technician or something? | 01:49 |
| azonenberg | process engineer? | 01:50 |
| Sync | no, first semester student with some contacts | 01:50 |
| azonenberg | oh lol | 01:50 |
| azonenberg | Lucky you, i didnt get into the cleanroom until i was a sophomore | 01:50 |
| azonenberg | And that was only because i was working with a third party company | 01:50 |
| azonenberg | that had me as a consultant, it wasnt for school | 01:50 |
| Sync | well, it's not like our process would need a clean room at all | 01:50 |
| azonenberg | Mine doesnt :p | 01:51 |
| azonenberg | I would use one if i had it | 01:51 |
| Sync | because we completely fail getting things right atm | 01:51 |
| azonenberg | And i plan to build one at home for when i shrink geometry to below 20um | 01:51 |
| azonenberg | but this is in my dream home / evil lair / $TERM_OF_CHOICE | 01:51 |
| azonenberg | Which is five to ten years out at best | 01:51 |
| Sync | a laminar flowbox should be enough | 01:51 |
| Sync | for most stuff | 01:51 |
| azonenberg | I want an entire room so i can have, for exmaple, a fume hood inside it | 01:52 |
| azonenberg | for spin coating and etching | 01:52 |
| azonenberg | and so i can have microscopes without dust covers :p | 01:52 |
| Sync | haha | 01:54 |
| azonenberg | plan is for that room to contain a hood/wet bench, my SEM, a metallurgical microscope, and whatever evap/sputtering rig i build | 01:54 |
| azonenberg | maybe 10-12 feet square? | 01:54 |
| Sync | but I really hate the ion implanter | 01:54 |
| Sync | you cannot get same results on different days because it decides that the same values on some valves produce different results | 01:56 |
| Sync | so you kinda have to get a feel for it | 01:56 |
| azonenberg | lol | 01:59 |
| Sync | yeah | 01:59 |
| azonenberg | Reminds me of the evaporator in the materials research center on campus | 01:59 |
| azonenberg | it's the only tool i use in my home fab processing that isnt actually at home | 01:59 |
| azonenberg | well besides the SEMs here and there | 01:59 |
| azonenberg | it's a 30-year-old CVC evaporator | 02:00 |
| azonenberg | full manual | 02:00 |
| azonenberg | actual valves you turn by hand | 02:00 |
| azonenberg | But it's so simple it almost never breaks down lol | 02:01 |
| azonenberg | Thoguh admittedly it is hard to get reproducible thicknesses | 02:01 |
| Sync | yes, this is the same problem here | 02:01 |
| azonenberg | But so far i havent needed to worry about exact thicknesses | 02:09 |
| azonenberg | a few percent variation is OK | 02:09 |
| azonenberg | My current short term goals are to improve lithography resolution to below 20um where it is onw | 02:11 |
| azonenberg | i have a roadmap down to 1.25um | 02:11 |
| azonenberg | but it will use commercially printed 8000DPI masks instead of the 600DPI laser pritner i use now | 02:11 |
| azonenberg | And if i could get the 40x objective to play nice i could theoretically hit ~350nm | 02:12 |
| azonenberg | more realistically i think 500-750 would be the limit | 02:13 |
| berndj | azonenberg, re 8000dpi, maybe not quite that res but still significantly beyond 600dpi, can you get someone with an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagesetter to do it a little more affordably than a full mask fab? | 12:14 |
| azonenberg | berndj: they tend to not have the greatest results, can be noisy and have stray dots etc | 14:16 |
| azonenberg | since they usually arent fabbed in cleanrooms | 14:16 |
| berndj | drat | 14:16 |
| azonenberg | laserlab.com will make sub-$100 masks at 3.125um lambda and 12.5um minimum feature design rules | 14:17 |
| azonenberg | 12x18 inches, 10x16 printable area | 14:17 |
| soul-d | see | 19:42 |
| soul-d | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VFmTUMsrjxU | 19:42 |
| soul-d | if i din't follow preelections i would have missed that | 19:43 |
| soul-d | free pony's for all american's | 19:44 |
| --- Tue Jan 10 2012 | 00:00 | |
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