#homecmos IRC log for Wednesday, 2012-01-04

soul-dok all think happy thoughs02:42
soul-dfor iowaneese peope02:43
soul-dshould vote for  ron paul :P02:43
azonenbergI've abstained in every election since i became eligible to vote02:46
azonenbergI can't endorse any of the candidates in good conscience02:46
azonenbergi disagree with all of them on at least one major issue02:46
azonenbergThis way, i have the satisfaction of knowing that no matter who wins02:46
azonenberghowever badly he screws up02:46
azonenbergi didn't vote for him02:46
soul-dtrue without voting you aqwuire the right to complain :P02:49
azonenbergi mean i could just as well vote for some crazy independent candidate, but odds are i dont share his views either02:50
soul-dbut as foreigner i must hope for at least a stable realible person02:50
azonenbergi want the country to be run by engineers02:50
soul-di only see that in ron paul02:50
azonenbergUnfortunately, they all know better than to run for political office02:50
soul-dnot those over relegious people02:50
soul-dtrue02:51
soul-di wish it worked that way sadly people like that02:51
soul-dhave no intrest in power02:52
azonenbergExactly02:52
soul-dwithc is the politcal game02:52
azonenbergAnd that's why we need one of them in office02:52
azonenbergBecause having no interest in power means you will be doing what's best for the country02:52
azonenbergnot what will get you re-elected02:52
azonenbergBut i know full well it's not going to happen any time soon02:52
soul-dstill waiting for those damn vulcans to show up ? :)02:53
azonenbergIf one of the candidates acted like a vulcan i would vote for him02:53
azonenbergand maybe even contribute to his campaign02:53
azonenbergSadly, they seem to have not found our planet02:53
soul-di see plenty of images on ent where they  do funny hand marks02:53
soul-dalmost like vulcans do02:54
azonenbergi'm not talkign that02:54
azonenbergI'm talking about acting logically02:54
azonenbergand rationally02:54
soul-dso why  no intrest in ron paul ?02:54
soul-dhe seems reasonable rationale02:54
azonenbergI havent looked at him in enough depth but i dont think he meets my standards either02:54
soul-dyou should  looks promising  from foreign  perspective02:55
soul-dhttp://iowacaucus.com/results/02:55
soul-di will use that map to avoid places that din't vote for  paul :P02:56
soul-dnot that id be there in near future02:56
soul-dbut ill keep on my hd somewher :)02:56
soul-dcause from foreign perspective  all those other candidates are imposible02:57
azonenbergas in?02:57
soul-dmost of them are crazy02:57
soul-dgoing on about iran02:58
azonenbergthey WANT to rule the country02:58
azonenbergthat alone is enough to make them crazy in my book02:58
soul-d true :)  anyhow just keep an close eye on it  with ron paul i at least have some hope all others would probably be bad for foreign relations02:59
azonenbergI'm more concerned about domestic concerns03:00
soul-dwasn't it november theelections ?03:00
azonenbergBut none of them can accept rational views on anything03:00
soul-dcause well yeah  if ron paul doesnt get it  it might be   dooms day :P03:00
azonenbergFor example, while I personally think homosexuality is wrong, that doesn't mean i think any less of a person who is03:00
azonenbergit just means i won't marry a guy03:00
soul-dtrue03:01
soul-di think it's wrong to03:01
soul-dbut i can't  say for some other dude03:01
azonenbergAnd yet on grounds of separation of church and state, I oppose any attempts at getting "marriage" into the picture03:01
azonenbergBecause marriage is a religious ceremony that should have nothing to do with civil stuff03:01
azonenbergIf i want to name someone I live with as being covered under my health insurance, for example03:02
soul-dtrue sadly lots of benefits come with bein married03:02
soul-dfor stuff03:02
azonenbergit should be nobody's business whether i'm in love with them or not03:02
azonenbergit could be a roommate with a steady girlfriend for all i care03:02
azonenbergbut we decided it was financially best for us to share the same insurance03:02
azonenbergWhile entirely hypothetical, such a situation is impossible without divorcing marriage and the related legal benefits entirely03:03
azonenbergBut yet none of the candidates from ANY party would consider such a solution03:03
azonenbergBecause they care more about pushing their religious or anti-religious agendas03:04
azonenbergthan simply maximizing benefit for all involved03:04
soul-dtrue  but then you are probably an atheist03:04
azonenbergMy beliefs lie somewhere between deism and pure science03:05
azonenbergin that i have no scientific explanation for the origin of the universe so i am willing to consider the possibility of divine creation, and yet i cannot say i believe that's the case03:05
azonenbergi simply have no opinion on the subject03:06
azonenbergbecause i have no evidence either way03:06
azonenbergi can't prove God exists, i can't prove he doesnt03:06
azonenbergagain, the kind of hard logic that politicians seem to lack03:06
soul-dk but important part  of that thingy for me is is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an all-powerful creator. According to deists, the creator does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles,03:07
azonenbergthat's why i said between03:07
soul-dor simply said "i don't know "03:07
azonenbergin that i can't prove a creator exists, but i can't prove he doesn't03:08
azonenbergif i was an atheist, i would flat out say there is no God03:08
soul-dthtas what my usual reaction is03:08
azonenbergBut as a scientist i have to remain detached due to the lack of evidence03:08
soul-dthere is no god that interferes with human life03:08
soul-dor cares what i  or you do03:08
azonenbergSo on just two issues alone, i've pretty much eliminated any major candidate from consideration03:09
azonenbergto say nothing of the other highly controversial ones like gun control03:10
azonenbergIt's obvious that you cannot stop illegal firearms from getting onto the streets, if they can smuggle drugs they can smugle guns03:10
soul-dok but if you liek domenestic aproach you should still see and look if ron paul can use your vote  he dus want's to stop being all over the world  and work on the usa03:11
azonenbergThere are already enough laws to prevent criminals from legally getting firearms03:11
soul-dtrue over regulation for the masses03:11
azonenbergBut at the same time, you also want to keep idiots from getting them03:11
azonenbergAs well as people who simply lack training03:11
soul-dwhile the bad guy's have no problem03:11
azonenbergSo therefore, the best solution is stronger enforcement of existing laws, combined with much tougher training requirements03:11
soul-dyeah every year stupid people with fireworks here03:12
soul-dsince it's only allowed 1 day in year03:12
azonenbergany average Joe off the street without a criminal record who passes a psychological screening should be allowed to purchase a firearm, for example03:12
azonenbergBUT03:12
azonenbergand this is the key part that people on both sides of the debate miss03:12
azonenbergFirst he has to show he knows how to use it03:12
soul-dbut no real reagulation except whats in  fireworks03:12
azonenberga two hour class or whatever the hunter education class is totally inadequate03:13
azonenbergyou need tens of hours of range time as a minimum03:13
azonenbergwith your choice of a concentration on self-defense, hunting, etc03:13
soul-dtrue03:13
azonenbergbut it should include difficult exercises03:13
soul-dfew tens of hours is not enough to master  basics even03:13
azonenbergExactly03:13
azonenbergThat's range time alone03:14
soul-dhabbits need 21 day's to settle and repetition03:14
azonenbergBut for the self defense track (required for handguns) it should also include realistic tactical scenarios with a paintball-type gun and instructors playing the part of potential threats and noncombatants03:14
azonenbergso you're walking along a simulated city street and a guy jumps out at you03:14
azonenbergyou have two seconds to decide if he's pointing a gun at you or holding a phone03:14
azonenbergstuff like that03:14
soul-di need 0.33503:15
azonenbergfor the hunting track, it should include field exercises03:15
soul-dbut depends on state03:15
azonenbergthat involve quickly determining if there's any civilians or roads or whatever03:15
azonenbergin your line of fire03:15
azonenbergMost firearms-related accidents are the result of either triggerhappy idiots or someone who doesn't know how to store it properly03:16
azonenbergSo you weed them out by making them fail the training03:16
azonenbergor by training away that idiocy03:16
soul-di think i pass i have my airgun  locked  with cheap trigger lock  and lost the key :_)03:16
azonenberglol03:16
azonenbergMy planned firearms storage facility is a room in a basement of the home i haven't built yet03:17
azonenbergMasonry walls, maybe reinforced concrete, and a steel door03:17
azonenbergto keep a burglar who gets into the house out of the room03:17
soul-dbut i live in small country03:17
soul-dso normal its banned here03:17
azonenbergCamera in the hallway, plus a card reader and thumbprint or retinal scanner on the door03:17
soul-d we just calculated netherlands fits  3,5 times in iowa03:17
soul-d:)03:17
azonenbergthen firearms in one safe and ammo in another03:17
azonenbergcombination locks on both03:17
soul-dbut had 6 times more people03:17
azonenbergA textbook defense-in-depth strategy that the average person just doesn't consider03:18
azonenbergmaybe trigger locks inside the safe, maybe not03:18
azonenbergBut where, on either sides of any debate, do you see gun control/rights people advocating much higher training?03:19
azonenbergNowhere03:19
soul-dsounds you building a a bunker  since it's 2012 :P03:19
azonenbergLol, i dont expect to even start construction till 2016 ish03:19
azonenbergWhich is the earliest i would graduate03:19
azonenbergMore likely i would save up for a few years03:19
azonenberg2020ish say03:20
azonenbergthe facility would include the secure room for the armory, but also a dedicated server room, machine shop, and cleanroom03:20
azonenberga SEM03:20
azonenbergevaporation and sputtering equipment if i can afford them by then03:20
soul-dwell hope  it will be bussiness as usual  sooner oor later :P  but world sucks and people are stupid03:20
soul-donce they forget wars03:21
soul-dand what happend03:21
soul-dthey go again03:21
soul-dusa is much cheaper to go big03:22
azonenbergWell, counterinsurgency is not a war03:22
azonenbergA war can be won03:22
azonenbergand is fighting against a well defined enemy03:22
azonenbergSo maybe there was a war when we were just trying to kick out Saddam03:22
soul-danother reason to look at ron paul he at least wants tot declare wars @ congress define it and win it  IF he would want to go to war03:22
soul-dor whatever the constitutional way is03:23
azonenbergBut trying to stabilize a region where everyone just wants to promote their own ethnic group at the expense of others03:23
azonenbergis not really something you can win03:23
soul-dtrue03:23
azonenbergSo i would say the war, if there was any, was won in a few months03:24
soul-dbut i usally  don't vote either  get bewtrayed just when you got hopes up03:24
azonenbergBut guerillas are nearly impossible to defeat03:24
soul-dand it's more  a vicious cy cle that creates more  poeople against the troops03:25
azonenbergI'm not talking iraq in particular03:26
azonenbergthat situation is even worse than conventional guerillas03:26
azonenbergBecause there's basically a civil war going on03:26
azonenbergI do think, no matter what anyone's thoughts on whether the *army* should be in the middle east or not03:27
azonenbergthe national guard should not ever be deployed overseas03:27
azonenbergtheir job is disaster response and defending the country against invasion03:27
azonenbergso no matter what the situation is, they do not belong in an offensive role03:28
azonenbergever03:28
azonenbergthat's the active duty service's job03:28
soul-dtrue03:32
soul-ddon't you have problems at mexican borders03:32
soul-dand it's not that it's a few  but i though i saw a figure of 100k from national guard serving overseas ?03:34
soul-d80-10003:34
soul-dsomthing like that i can remmember vaguly03:35
azonenbergThe mexican border is probably where most of the illegal guns and drugs find their way into the country03:38
azonenbergSo people are definitely needed there03:38
soul-dyeah03:42
soul-dfirst of divert all weed to me03:43
azonenbergLol03:43
soul-dill burn it  responsibly03:43
soul-d2012 will be year ill leave tabaco behind me though :p03:45
soul-dwich will be hard since im used to the mixed taste and don't smoke normal sigarets03:46
soul-dbut probably be easyer to smoke less afther that :)03:50
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