#homecmos IRC log for Thursday, 2011-12-15

azonenberghorizontally: So i can now theoretically hit 350nm :p00:08
horizontally350nm what?00:08
azonenbergRealistically i dont think i'll be able to go quite that small with my optics00:08
azonenbergHalf pitch00:08
azonenberg12.5um design rule on a photomask from laserlab00:08
soul-doh yeah now you mention optics  how do you actualy  make the image smaller :P00:08
azonenbergtimes 40x reduction00:08
horizontallywhat are you designing again? comb drive?00:08
azonenberghorizontally: Oh, i wouldnt make a comb drive that small00:08
soul-dis it magnifer optics or some  microscope optics ?00:09
azonenbergThis is just projecting00:09
azonenbergsoul-d: Microscope objective00:09
azonenbergI'm going to buy a commercial photomask rather than printing my own, just to see how well it works00:09
azonenbergIts gonna cost me $100ish but be 10x16 inches00:09
azonenbergso i plan to shove a ton of small masks onto it00:09
azonenbergand cut it up00:09
azonenbergSo theoretically, 12.5um design rule * 40x reduction is on the order of 350nm (i think the actual number was 330)00:10
azonenbergRealistically, i do not think i can go that small00:10
azonenbergBut 1 micron range is definitely doable00:10
azonenbergWe'll find out in a few weeks when i have the time to work on it00:10
azonenbergJust finished my last final, now i just have to catch up on grading and i can get back to the lab00:11
soul-dis it same priciple with that objective as with an hand held loupe ?00:11
azonenbergits just a magnifying lens00:11
azonenbergi'm using the microscope because its a pre-existing optical column with everything lined up00:11
azonenbergIn thoery00:11
soul-dso how does the light come in play  in setup00:11
azonenbergi put the mask on top of the camera port00:12
azonenbergand put the light behind it00:12
azonenbergso the light goes throough the mask, throguh the objective, nad is focused on the sample00:12
soul-dyah i played with the loupe but distance of light source is critical also that paralel thingy00:12
soul-dof the light or you get fuzzy image00:12
azonenbergThats the nice thing about the microscope00:12
azonenbergeverything is already the right distance00:12
azonenbergThe one problem is that my stage is screwed up00:13
azonenbergit's not exactly perpendicular to the optical axis00:13
azonenbergthey're off by a fraction of a degree00:13
azonenbergso i cant focus the entire field at once00:13
azonenbergi need to correct that and havent had time to figure out the best way00:13
soul-dk but then at least i know it's worth playing with these objectives as cheap alternative00:14
soul-dalso found cheap good working 40x00:14
azonenbergI've hit 20 microns using a cheap Amscope 40x objective00:14
azonenbergsorry, a 10x00:14
azonenbergThe 40x is flaky00:14
azonenbergi also dont know if 12.5um on the input image is going to be too small00:14
azonenbergBut as a minimum 25 to 50 should resolve00:15
azonenbergwhich, shrunk 10x, is 2.5 to 5 um00:15
azonenbergSo i am very confident i can go at least that far00:15
azonenbergbut maybe down to 1.25 with the 10x obj00:15
azonenbergwit hthe 40x, divide those numbers by 400:15
azonenbergthose last numbers are far more questionable00:16
soul-dnow i have 40x  i can    use the 10x's for other stuff :)00:16
azonenbergi'll be at the limit of my optics00:16
azonenbergI can *see* features that small00:16
azonenbergso its not at the diffraction limit00:16
azonenbergbut it'll be close00:16
azonenbergIf i go at all submicron i will be impressed00:16
soul-di can at least  take pictures trough it so :) thats nice00:17
azonenbergWhat kind of CS major am i? :P00:17
azonenbergi'm sitting here grading homework on computer architecture while chatting IC fab with you guys00:17
soul-dif you had a 3d printer00:18
soul-dprinting a focus thingy would be trivial00:18
azonenbergi wish00:18
azonenberggetting that kind of accuracy is nontrivial00:18
azonenbergyou show me a 3d printer that can make parts to +/-5um tolerances00:18
azonenbergin a rigid material that wont flex00:18
azonenbergand i will buy it on sight00:18
soul-di mean probably good enough for home usage for the 10x objective :P00:19
azonenbergNo idea00:19
soul-ddin't yiu see the link btw00:20
soul-dof tineyst 3d printer ?00:20
azonenbergI never bought into those things00:20
azonenbergi prefer doing bulk micromachining ;)00:21
soul-dno it's a ted talk  just to present technology00:21
soul-dhe suclpts  at nm00:21
soul-dmade some bridge00:21
soul-din 3d00:21
soul-dalthough his english and presentation overal is quite bad :P00:22
azonenbergWill check it out later00:22
azonenbergright now i'm about to hit the sack00:22
azonenbergits only 1900 but i'm on a crazy sleep schedule :p00:22
soul-dk i don't have a sleep shedule realy :)00:24
--- Fri Dec 16 201100:00

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