| azonenberg | horizontally: So i can now theoretically hit 350nm :p | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| horizontally | 350nm what? | 00:08 |
| azonenberg | Realistically i dont think i'll be able to go quite that small with my optics | 00:08 |
| azonenberg | Half pitch | 00:08 |
| azonenberg | 12.5um design rule on a photomask from laserlab | 00:08 |
| soul-d | oh yeah now you mention optics how do you actualy make the image smaller :P | 00:08 |
| azonenberg | times 40x reduction | 00:08 |
| horizontally | what are you designing again? comb drive? | 00:08 |
| azonenberg | horizontally: Oh, i wouldnt make a comb drive that small | 00:08 |
| soul-d | is it magnifer optics or some microscope optics ? | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | This is just projecting | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | soul-d: Microscope objective | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | I'm going to buy a commercial photomask rather than printing my own, just to see how well it works | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | Its gonna cost me $100ish but be 10x16 inches | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | so i plan to shove a ton of small masks onto it | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | and cut it up | 00:09 |
| azonenberg | So theoretically, 12.5um design rule * 40x reduction is on the order of 350nm (i think the actual number was 330) | 00:10 |
| azonenberg | Realistically, i do not think i can go that small | 00:10 |
| azonenberg | But 1 micron range is definitely doable | 00:10 |
| azonenberg | We'll find out in a few weeks when i have the time to work on it | 00:10 |
| azonenberg | Just finished my last final, now i just have to catch up on grading and i can get back to the lab | 00:11 |
| soul-d | is it same priciple with that objective as with an hand held loupe ? | 00:11 |
| azonenberg | its just a magnifying lens | 00:11 |
| azonenberg | i'm using the microscope because its a pre-existing optical column with everything lined up | 00:11 |
| azonenberg | In thoery | 00:11 |
| azonenberg | theory* | 00:11 |
| soul-d | so how does the light come in play in setup | 00:11 |
| azonenberg | i put the mask on top of the camera port | 00:12 |
| azonenberg | and put the light behind it | 00:12 |
| azonenberg | so the light goes throough the mask, throguh the objective, nad is focused on the sample | 00:12 |
| soul-d | yah i played with the loupe but distance of light source is critical also that paralel thingy | 00:12 |
| soul-d | of the light or you get fuzzy image | 00:12 |
| azonenberg | Thats the nice thing about the microscope | 00:12 |
| azonenberg | everything is already the right distance | 00:12 |
| azonenberg | The one problem is that my stage is screwed up | 00:13 |
| azonenberg | it's not exactly perpendicular to the optical axis | 00:13 |
| azonenberg | they're off by a fraction of a degree | 00:13 |
| azonenberg | so i cant focus the entire field at once | 00:13 |
| azonenberg | i need to correct that and havent had time to figure out the best way | 00:13 |
| soul-d | k but then at least i know it's worth playing with these objectives as cheap alternative | 00:14 |
| soul-d | also found cheap good working 40x | 00:14 |
| azonenberg | I've hit 20 microns using a cheap Amscope 40x objective | 00:14 |
| azonenberg | sorry, a 10x | 00:14 |
| azonenberg | The 40x is flaky | 00:14 |
| azonenberg | i also dont know if 12.5um on the input image is going to be too small | 00:14 |
| azonenberg | But as a minimum 25 to 50 should resolve | 00:15 |
| azonenberg | which, shrunk 10x, is 2.5 to 5 um | 00:15 |
| azonenberg | So i am very confident i can go at least that far | 00:15 |
| azonenberg | but maybe down to 1.25 with the 10x obj | 00:15 |
| azonenberg | wit hthe 40x, divide those numbers by 4 | 00:15 |
| azonenberg | those last numbers are far more questionable | 00:16 |
| soul-d | now i have 40x i can use the 10x's for other stuff :) | 00:16 |
| azonenberg | i'll be at the limit of my optics | 00:16 |
| azonenberg | I can *see* features that small | 00:16 |
| azonenberg | so its not at the diffraction limit | 00:16 |
| azonenberg | but it'll be close | 00:16 |
| azonenberg | If i go at all submicron i will be impressed | 00:16 |
| soul-d | i can at least take pictures trough it so :) thats nice | 00:17 |
| azonenberg | :) | 00:17 |
| azonenberg | What kind of CS major am i? :P | 00:17 |
| azonenberg | i'm sitting here grading homework on computer architecture while chatting IC fab with you guys | 00:17 |
| soul-d | if you had a 3d printer | 00:18 |
| soul-d | printing a focus thingy would be trivial | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | Lol | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | i wish | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | getting that kind of accuracy is nontrivial | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | you show me a 3d printer that can make parts to +/-5um tolerances | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | in a rigid material that wont flex | 00:18 |
| azonenberg | and i will buy it on sight | 00:18 |
| soul-d | i mean probably good enough for home usage for the 10x objective :P | 00:19 |
| azonenberg | No idea | 00:19 |
| soul-d | din't yiu see the link btw | 00:20 |
| soul-d | of tineyst 3d printer ? | 00:20 |
| azonenberg | nope | 00:20 |
| azonenberg | I never bought into those things | 00:20 |
| azonenberg | i prefer doing bulk micromachining ;) | 00:21 |
| soul-d | no it's a ted talk just to present technology | 00:21 |
| soul-d | he suclpts at nm | 00:21 |
| soul-d | made some bridge | 00:21 |
| soul-d | in 3d | 00:21 |
| soul-d | http://www.ted.com/talks/klaus_stadlmann_the_world_s_smallest_3d_printer.html | 00:21 |
| soul-d | although his english and presentation overal is quite bad :P | 00:22 |
| azonenberg | Will check it out later | 00:22 |
| azonenberg | right now i'm about to hit the sack | 00:22 |
| azonenberg | its only 1900 but i'm on a crazy sleep schedule :p | 00:22 |
| soul-d | k i don't have a sleep shedule realy :) | 00:24 |
| --- Fri Dec 16 2011 | 00:00 | |
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