#homecmos IRC log for Thursday, 2011-12-08

bart416azonenberg, our professor digital circuit design adviced me to go TTL anyway18:19
bart416And told me to get the book Digital Integrated Electronics by Herbert Taub18:19
bart416In other words, I just ordered it heh18:20
horizontallydid you check library.nu ?19:13
bart416University library also has the book19:46
bart416But I want to design this over the winter break19:46
bart416VTech is in the news again...19:46
bart416Somebody is trying to beat the highscore19:46
azonenbergbart416: Somebody's shooting them up *again*?20:37
bart416Current score: 220:37
azonenbergYou'd think they would have locked down a bit20:37
bart416High score: 3220:37
azonenbergTwo wounded or two fatalities?20:37
bart416Two fatalities20:37
bart416A cop and somebody else20:38
azonenbergAnd I bet campus security still doesnt carry firearms20:38
bart416Honnestly all firearms should be banned on campus20:38
bart416I don't even get the need for firearms at all for most people20:38
azonenbergOn the contrary, the bad guys will have them anyway20:38
bart416Especially pistols20:38
bart416How much shootings happen in Europe per year?20:38
azonenbergIts pretty hard to lock down all entrances to something as large as a suburban college campus20:38
azonenbergSo you want to be ready in case something does happen20:39
azonenbergI mean, a skilled shooter is going to be piling up the bodies very rapidly20:39
azonenbergSay, crowded auditorium or lecture hall with a semiauto20:39
azonenbergTwo in the chest, one in the head, three seconds per kill20:39
azonenbergThree to four kills per magazine20:39
azonenbergplus at most five seconds to change20:40
azonenbergIn 90 seconds you have over ten bodies and the cops are four minutes off20:40
bart416Yeah, then again you assume a person can get a semiautomatic weapon legally20:40
bart416That's not the case here20:40
bart416And illegally it's almost impossible to get as well20:40
azonenbergDo you have drug cartels over there that you can buy from?20:40
azonenbergI figured as much20:40
bart416Not really no20:40
azonenbergIts easier to get them illegally20:40
bart416Our police doesn't have to investigate shootings or arrest protesters all the time20:40
azonenbergTherefore, you can either sit down and get shot, or be prepared to fight back20:41
smedingit's not entirely a matter of availability20:41
bart416+ drugs isn't strictly illegal20:41
smedingthough i think it helps20:41
smedingit's also a matter of culture20:41
bart416So they have time to get rid of all the illegal arms trade going on20:41
azonenbergbart416: Well, around here drugs fund the arms trade :p20:41
bart416Only some robers manage to get AK-47s, and those are very rare20:42
bart4161-2 cases / year20:42
azonenbergThe Mexican cartels have AKs all the time but i think most of the really nasty stuff is near the border20:42
azonenbergBut they smuggle pistols up north to arm the dealers20:42
bart416Here there never has been a "omg we need guns to defend ourselves" mentality20:42
soul-dhere people with guns are by definition bad people20:43
bart416Well realising that if we make firearms easy to get that more things will happen with them20:43
azonenbergWell, around here there is no room for doubt that the bad guys are armed20:43
soul-dalmost all *20:43
azonenbergSo the question is, do you want the good guys to be too?20:43
bart416Only police and military have the serious weapons.20:43
bart416Pistols are near impossible to get20:43
soul-donliy police etc20:43
bart416And hunting rifles are only slow loading ones20:43
bart416Nothing semi automatic20:43
azonenbergbart416: I'm talking campus security carrying pistols20:43
azonenbergThat would help with the initial response time significantly20:43
bart416That's an accident waiting to happen20:44
azonenbergget eyes and a weapon on scene quickly20:44
azonenbergMy guess is, campus security could respond to any location inside 90 seconds20:44
azonenbergWith an expert shooter you'd have around fifteen bodies already20:44
soul-dhere density of people  v.s guns is low20:44
azonenbergSo do you want to wait another ten minutes for SWAT?20:44
bart416You don't want armed guards walking around potentially drunk students20:44
soul-dsure  since i don't trust the next person with a fun20:44
azonenbergMight make those students behave better20:44
soul-dgun *20:45
azonenbergAnd you need people to be trained better20:45
bart416Here the police for example employs a simple system around students20:45
azonenbergThere is no doubt about that, most cops are not at all qualified20:45
soul-dif you want  to live in a 1984 world sure20:45
bart416No lethal weapons20:45
soul-dbut a  guard20:45
soul-dnext to every person20:45
azonenbergsoul-d: College campuses are, right now, soft targets20:45
azonenbergYou know nobody is armed20:45
azonenbergSo if you want a high body count you go there vs say a mall or movie theater20:45
bart416Tazers sometimes20:45
azonenbergwhere you might find a legal CCW holder20:46
azonenbergThe question is, why has nobody fixed that?20:46
soul-dbut you are working on fear20:46
soul-dwich is just stupid20:46
bart416The fix is easy, ban weapons20:46
azonenbergbart416: Good luck20:46
bart416Oh, that's already the case here20:46
azonenbergIt'd work about as well as banning marijuana20:46
bart416So not much luck needed20:46
azonenbergmy guess is they're about as easy to get20:46
bart416Marijuana is pretty much legal here lol20:46
bart416Police won't arrest you if you have a few grams on you20:46
azonenbergbart416: Point is, there is so much out there that its impossible to get it all off the streets20:47
azonenbergsame thing with illegal weapons20:47
azonenbergSo again, the question is whether you want to fight back or sit back and get shot20:47
bart416The issue is your fear response culture20:47
azonenbergBecause "the bad guys have guns" is a given20:47
soul-dand they will use them20:47
bart416Due to the lack of weapons here less people get shot20:47
soul-dis you have a gun20:47
bart416Look at the armed crime rate20:48
azonenbergsoul-d: You're saying if campus security was armed we'd have *more* mass shootings?20:48
azonenbergIt would act as a deterrent20:48
bart416Its far lower than in the US20:48
azonenbergas well as reducing the number of fatalities once someone does snap20:48
bart416While we're far more densly populated20:48
azonenbergbart416: like i said, less drug crime20:48
bart416Well, people who snap here have a knife at most20:48
bart416Cause they can't get a gun20:48
azonenbergbart416: So then you get people using explosives20:49
azonenbergEven worse20:49
soul-dand that  you won't fix by  allowing guns20:49
azonenbergLook at all of what the IRA was doing20:49
bart416Last serious attempt at terrorism in Belgium has been decades lol20:49
azonenbergyou're telling me banning guns stopped them?20:49
azonenbergbart416: I'm talking britain20:49
bart416Britain is not the same as mainland Europe20:50
azonenbergTheir situation is more directly comparable to the USA20:50
soul-dwe din't dig the canal for nothing20:50
bart416azonenberg, not really20:50
bart416Most police officers in the UK aren't even armed20:50
bart416Still, far lower crime rate20:50
azonenbergbart416: I'd be willing to bet that if you somehow managed to get all the guns off the street in a major city in the USA20:51
azonenbergYou'd just see stabbings skyrocket20:51
bart416That's a mentality problem with your fear culture20:51
azonenbergThe drug dealers are still fighting over their turf20:51
azonenbergThey'd just change weapons20:51
bart416You all feel the need to cary weapons20:51
bart416If you had people weapons they'll fight each other no matter what20:51
soul-di think there was a good bbc20:52
soul-don it20:52
azonenbergbart416: The drug dealers will fight each other no matter what, with sticks and stones if necessary :p20:52
bart416Well, ever considered that the police will have an easier time getting rid of them if they're not armed as well?20:52
azonenbergThere's a motorcycle gang on the other end of town and i know for a fact that most of them carry knives openly20:52
azonenbergWould not at all be surprised if most have concealed handguns too20:53
soul-ddin't you want people to carry weapons20:53
soul-dor only certain people ?20:54
soul-degg police20:54
azonenbergIn this particular case, campus security as a minimum20:54
soul-dwell go to that gang20:54
azonenbergObviously you would want to have stricter training requirements20:54
soul-dask for security probably nice people20:54
bart416Generally most motorcyclist gangs are filled with softies heh20:54
azonenbergBecause i can say for a fact that most people with handgun permits, and probably most police, are not qualified20:54
azonenbergcouldnt shoot a fish in a barrel20:55
soul-dbut just 10 ago you wantend  campus20:55
azonenbergAnd certainly not an active shooter without endangering bystanders20:55
soul-dto carry guns20:55
azonenbergsoul-d: I was saying, train them better and THEN arm them20:55
soul-dsorry the wage is to low for such jobs20:55
bart416The thing is, most people with these weapons are not trained at all20:55
soul-dyou never get enough  trained people20:55
bart416You're suggesting regular people can get them20:55
bart416These people do not receive training20:56
bart416Additionally these people are also capable of snapping and just shooting random by standers20:56
azonenbergbart416: I do not support restrictions (beyond criminal and psych background checks) on who *can* purchase a weapon20:56
soul-dand people with newfound powers will abuse them :)20:56
azonenberghowever i also support mandating much stronger training than is in place now20:56
bart416Here if somebody snaps at most they'll punch you20:56
bart416In the US they have a concealed weapon and they can use it20:56
azonenbergIf you want the gov't to trust you with a car, you have to pass a test20:56
azonenbergAnd the "purchase a handgun" test should involve probably 40+ hours of range time including shoot/no-shoot drills20:57
soul-dsame here for weapons but we had a schooting for a crazy kid20:57
soul-dhe was  member of  club and all20:57
soul-dall legal20:57
soul-dand also shot 6 people20:57
azonenbergsoul-d: Those are very rare, and better psych background checking would have probably helped20:57
azonenbergMost of these lunatics were obviously losing it20:57
soul-dyes would cause he was crazy20:57
azonenbergFirst, weed out the psychopaths and criminals20:58
azonenbergThen make sure the rest know what they're doing20:58
soul-dto many people still and again if you want to live in a 1984 world20:58
azonenbergYou're saying we dont already?20:58
soul-dwhere sombody with a gun is checking your every move20:58
azonenbergPhone companies are recording every keystroke on your smartphone20:59
soul-ddoesn't mean you have to make it worse20:59
azonenbergIt's common knowledge that NSA did, and probably still does, tap phone calls whenever and wherever it wants20:59
azonenbergAnd if the civilians are armed too, it will at least increase the odds of stopping the nutjob20:59
soul-dtrue netherlands is actualy most phone tapped  country20:59
bart416<azonenberg> Phone companies are recording every keystroke on your smartphone <-- Not really20:59
azonenbergsoul-d: Whats your source on that?21:00
soul-dbut also increases amount of nutjobs21:00
soul-dwith guns21:00
azonenbergI wasnt aware that intelligence published stats21:00
bart416Not a single phone company here pre installs Carrier IQ on their phones21:00
azonenbergbart416: cIQ is the first tool like that *to be detected*21:00
azonenberghow many other carriers have something similar that wasnt found yet?21:00
soul-dit's probably a geustimate21:00
bart416Actually many are known21:00
azonenbergI'm willing to bet, all of them21:00
bart416+ it's against EU privacy policy :)21:00
azonenbergTapping civilians w/o warrants also violates federal law21:00
azonenbergDid that stop them?21:01
azonenbergBig Brother is watching, get over it21:01
bart416Oh but why don't you use your guns to defend your rights?21:01
soul-din that news source21:01
azonenbergI'm not furrywolf here advocating a violent revolution21:01
bart416Like the general excuse given to own guns21:01
azonenbergI just wnat to be able to fight back if somebody starts shooting at me21:01
soul-dit says only 2000 telephone taps where placed in usa  where 1700 where placed in netherlands a day  ( sounds to farfected to me on 200mln people )21:02
bart416+ honnestly I could do more damage with something I could build in the electronics lab in an afternoon than with an automatic machine gun21:02
soul-d200 on a year21:02
azonenbergsoul-d: 2000 taps? Not even remotely close21:02
azonenbergthere are more, i'm quite sure of that21:02
soul-dyeah now i reread it sounds  to few to be true21:02
azonenbergbart416: Full auto is just stupid21:02
azonenbergif you want to do damage you want a semi21:02
azonenbergEven a bolt action if you're good enough with it21:02
bart416I could still cause way more damage21:03
azonenbergDepedns on what your skills are, i guess21:03
azonenbergI have no clue how to build an explosive device :p21:03
azonenbergbut i can get pretty good accuracy with a rifle at 200m21:03
azonenbergBack to my original point though... campus security at my school could probably get anywhere within 60-90 seconds on a top priority call21:04
bart416We have no campus security21:04
azonenberglocal cops at least five minuts and county swat probably ten21:04
bart416And the last time somebody died on campus was a suicide over three decades ago21:04
azonenbergbart416: And when was the last time you had a student mugged by the locals?21:04
bart416On campus?21:04
azonenbergWithin a block or two21:04
azonenbergcampus security keeps them off the campus proper21:04
bart416Our campus is on the border of the city so hard to tell in terms of blocks :P21:05
azonenbergAnd we havent had fatalities here since a suicide about five years ago and that was the first in a long time21:05
soul-dmost campuses here are not near  blocks usaly21:05
bart416I'd have to say it's been a few years as well21:05
bart416+ European cities don't really have blocks lol21:05
bart416You'd probably get lost here21:05
bart416The campus is spread all over city21:05
azonenbergBut every month or two we have someone get jumped by a bunch of locals21:05
azonenbergRarely, if ever, do they present a gun21:05
azonenbergusually it's knives or fists21:05
bart416The worst that has happened here was a rapist in a park nearby a few years ago21:06
azonenbergThey want their drug money, they know students have laptops and other things worth selling21:06
azonenbergSo they go take it21:06
azonenbergThe stupidest part IMO is that they always surrender without a fight21:06
bart416Here they realise they'l be surrounded by a bunch of students and get beaten into he hospital21:07
azonenbergThat happened once21:07
azonenbergFor the first time in years one of the students fought back21:07
azonenbergbroke the nose of one attacker and the rest fled21:07
azonenbergnot sure if any of them were caught21:07
bart416They sometimes try it on the places we go out21:07
bart416Lets just say if it's spotted the criminals don't get far21:07
soul-dusa in general is just weird probably has something to do with teaching kids overconfidence21:07
azonenbergsoul-d: overconfidence? These guys are sheep21:08
azonenbergthey do whatever the guy says even if they're bigger than he is and he doenst show a weapon21:08
azonenbergWe had a guy hand over his laptop to an unarmed twelve-year-old :p21:08
azonenbergI am not kidding21:08
bart416Like somebody started a fight in the bar we're normally at21:08
bart416We "escorted" him outside21:08
bart416And showed his head that a plastic trash can cause a concussion :p21:09
bart416*can can21:09
bart416And then handed him over to the police21:09
bart416lol "safe" green energy21:10
azonenbergAlso, lol @ campus security stats21:10
bart416A wind turbine in scotland exploded due to huricane strength winds21:10
azonenbergthey dont list any one of the off-campus incidents from the last year21:10
bart416+ nobody bothers to steal phones here anymore21:11
bart416They get locked within hours anyway21:11
bart416So they become completely useless21:11
azonenbergipod, phone, laptop are all top targets for these guys21:11
azonenbergSo, one must ask the question - why do the students sit down and take it?21:12
bart416Your fear mentality21:12
azonenbergJust a minut ago you were saying that made us all carry guns21:13
soul-dwatch adam curtis documantary's21:13
azonenbergnow you're saying it makes people not fight back?21:13
soul-dit will explain21:13
bart416It does both21:13
soul-dyou fear21:13
soul-dtrust no other person21:13
azonenbergBecause i can guarantee that if i ever was approached by a would-be mugger I would fight with whatever i had on me21:13
azonenbergeven if i had to club him with my flashlight21:13
azonenbergEven if overpowered in the end, i'd know that he had to fight for whatever he got21:17
soul-dthey look for the weak ofcourse  and not someone that might struggle21:17
soul-dand in the moment yo never realy know  id probably choose the one that ensures my saftey first21:20
azonenbergsoul-d: That's assuming they managed to get close enough, I generally look over my shoulder and maintain good situational awareness21:23
azonenbergMost of the folks who get jumped have headphones on21:23
azonenbergand are completely oblivious to their surroundings21:23
soul-dsure i do that21:23
azonenbergBut a surprising number of people dont21:24
azonenbergYou're broadcasting two pieces of information21:24
azonenbergfirst, you are carrying an ipod or similar device that is easily sellable on the black market, easy to conceal, and relatively valuable21:24
azonenbergSecond, you can't hear the guy coming21:24
soul-dhere there is a trend with openly playing their music in small boxes on them or somthing21:26
soul-dbut those people are hazard in trafic also already21:26
azonenbergLol, yeah21:29
soul-dalso most on tv in usa21:39
soul-dis violence21:39
soul-dat least  leass hassle about that  then  a tit that shows a bit skin  or  a skin colored suit21:40
azonenbergYeah, i dont get why popular culture considers it more acceptable to show murdering someone than sleeping with them21:41
soul-dnot even that but nakedness in general is worse  then violence acts21:49
bart416soul-d, religious based values...21:50
bart416lol, somebody hijacked a germanium diode to make a point contact transistor :')21:55
bart416That's weak, we've used a giant block of germanium for that in the electronics lab21:55
bart416material "sample" lol21:55
bart416It's a pretty heavy slab21:55
bart416Remarkable current capacity actually lol21:55
soul-diran showed the drone they catched21:56
bart416Though that might be more related to the size of the thing than anything else21:56
bart416Yeah, it's not a wood and paper fake for once!21:56
soul-di believe iran before i do usa21:57
soul-dalmost blindly21:57
bart416Iran hasn't had the best believable news report history21:58
bart416Their new revolutionary assault craft was what we'd classify as WWII era fighters...21:58
bart416The only reason western jets wouldn't be able to shoot them is cause they crash before they get in range or they're too slow21:58
soul-dfrom same sources as  nuclear info i geuss ?22:00
bart416Official Iran newsreports lol22:01
bart416They were actually proud to demonstrate it...22:01
soul-ddon't think they are top of art but they probably can get their hands on rusian stuff22:01
bart416Hence why it was funny :)22:02
soul-dand rusian stuff22:02
soul-dis better then new   jets we are making22:02
soul-djoint strike fightwer22:02
bart416JSF is a joke22:03
bart416They made it into a joke22:03
bart416US needs to stop this entire management outsourcement capitalism bullshit22:03
bart416+ Space program is the source of many revolutionary aircraft designs22:04
bart416So getting rid of NASA funding is like running towards your own goal and scoring22:04
soul-ddoesn't make enoguh profit for certain people22:05
soul-dwar is bussiness22:05
bart416Honnestly we could have been standing on the moon decades ago if it wasn't for greed22:06
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