#homecmos IRC log for Monday, 2011-11-21

soul-dwhen you figure out other uses for  tools you might think twice when to mention :) ->  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-8t6N4rk4M&feature=player_embedded09:19
West0nHow do you design the origonal exposure patern?20:27
horizontallydon't use transparencies not meant for laser printers in laser printers20:27
West0nWhat program do you design the artwork in?20:27
West0nAnd how do you make sure its to scale?20:27
Thetawavesthey have a 5 pixel design rule or something20:29
West0nWhat program do you design the artwork in?20:32
West0nAnd make sure the dimensions are correct?20:32
West0nPaint doesent realy have a dimension tool20:33
West0nI am trying to use solidworks20:37
West0nBut I can't seem to print to scale20:37
Thetawaveswait for azonenberg to nonafk20:41
azonenbergThetawaves: I do the original design in Glade (the IC layout tool, not the GUI designer)21:17
azonenbergThen i convert the GDS to a DXF21:17
azonenbergand print that to scale21:17
West0nIs glade free azonenberg?21:19
West0nI'm guessing its not21:19
azonenbergWest0n: Freeware but closed source21:19
West0nWhat can I use for simple designs?21:19
West0nI only need a 8mm ring21:19
West0nThat's 1mm wide21:19
azonenbergWest0n: This is what I use, thats all i can say21:20
azonenbergThat's a design I did in it21:20
azonenberga full 2" wafer of the comb drive I'll be making soon21:20
azonenbergYou are going to want to use vector graphics21:22
azonenbergAutocad might not be a bad choice if you have it already and know how to use it21:22
West0nWhat program do you print dxf's from?21:22
West0nAnd does glade itself convert gds to dxf?21:23
Thetawaveshow much force will you get with that?21:23
azonenbergRight now? (still working on this part)21:23
azonenbergI convert DXF to  PNG using QCad21:23
azonenbergand postprocess in gimp21:23
azonenbergthen do final printing in gimp21:23
West0nI know how to use solidworks21:23
azonenbergThe toolchain does need improving21:23
West0nAnd drew a 3d drawing21:23
West0nCan't figure out how to export it as something usefull.... lol21:23
azonenbergeventually i want to feed the GDS directly into a laser direct write system for mask fab21:23
azonenbergThetawaves: No idea21:23
azonenbergThe goal is, first off, to build it successfully21:24
azonenbergDoesnt even matter if it works21:24
azonenbergbeing able to build something off the mask set is a first step21:24
West0nSolidworks won't let me export in 1:1 scale for dxf...21:26
azonenbergHmm, strange21:26
Thetawavesi think you should just use inkscape21:28
Thetawavesor another good vector graphics program21:28
Thetawaveshand draw it like the 650221:28
azonenbergThat will work fine for simple masks21:29
azonenbergthe nice thing about glade is that it can export to standard formats like GDS21:29
azonenbergand it supports cell based layout21:29
West0nHow do I print vector graphics with correct scale?21:29
azonenbergmeaning you can do hierarchal designs rather than flat21:29
azonenbergDepends totally on your toolchain21:29
azonenbergIf you figure out a good way of doing it, let us know and we'll document it on the wiki21:29
azonenbergthe only way i know how to do to-scale printing is Gimp specifying physical size of the rendered image in the print set up page21:30
West0nI'm gonna try google sketchup21:35
West0nI think you can print to scale from it21:35
azonenbergDo your own research for your tools21:37
azonenbergI'd love to hear how it turns out but I don't know every tool around so i cant help you with everything21:37
Thetawavesit would be better to laser->galvanometer->lense->wafer21:39
Thetawavesconvert dxf to gcode21:40
Thetawavesrun the galvanometers with the gcode21:41
azonenbergThetawaves: Thats the idea21:41
azonenbergexcept it would probably use GDSII as the native format21:41
azonenbergor GDSII to gcode21:41
azonenbergBut that's the ultimate goal21:41
azonenbergI'm talking with a couple of folks now about it21:41
ThetawavesGDSII to gcode21:41
Thetawavessounds like a bitch21:42
azonenbergThetawaves: I might do GDSII to gerber and then make gcode from that, or run the gerber natively21:43
azonenbergi dont know enough about the file formats to know how CAM friendly they are21:43
azonenbergBut what i do know is i am going to have a pair of galvos on a mirror assembly with a bluray laser bouncing off it (405nm, right in the middle of my photoresist's peak sensitivity range)21:43
azonenbergshining onto a metalized photoresist-coated microscope slide21:43
azonenbergthe goal being a chrome-on-glass mask21:44
Thetawavesare you going to make the galvanometer?21:44
azonenbergit wont have alignment capability so i cant do direct write on the wafer21:44
azonenbergAnd not sure, this is a longer term project21:44
Thetawavesyes after some consideration21:53
Thetawavesi WOULD be fun to build a galvo21:53
azonenberghow about one that does 2D on one mirror?21:54
azonenbergSo you can do x/y raster scan21:54
Thetawavesprocuring magnets could be irritating21:54
azonenbergi'm not sure how that would be done21:54
Thetawavesi would not attempt it21:54
Thetawavesprocuring magnets is always irritating21:55
Thetawavesazonenberg, have you figured out a way to do 2d on one mirror?21:57
azonenbergIf i had, i'd have built the thing already :p21:58
azonenbergI was thinking some kind of a ball joint at the center of the mirror21:58
azonenbergsprung to keep it centered21:58
azonenbergthen electromagnets on all four corners21:58
Thetawavesthe electromagnet is the mirror21:58
Thetawavesyou have magnets on the outside21:58
azonenbergWhy does it have to be done like that?21:59
azonenbergremember i dont need super fast panning21:59
Thetawavesi'm no expert, but if you look at the way regular galvanometers work...21:59
azonenbergits not like i'm trying to do realtime video projection etc21:59
azonenbergi'll be doing a brief ~100ns pulse21:59
Thetawavesyou don't want to control two separate coils when you can do one21:59
azonenbergthen panning by a small amount and doing it again21:59
azonenbergAnd the thing is, if i do 2 axis22:00
azonenbergi will need at least 2 nad possibly 422:00
Thetawavesyou're talking about 4 signals vs 222:00
azonenbergin fact, i almost wonder if i could do it with digital servomotors22:00
azonenbergsimilar to how they do swashplates on RC helicopters22:00
Thetawavesyou probably could22:00
azonenbergi just would like to make it a little bit faster22:00
azonenbergAnd also more precise22:00
azonenbergbecause i would like to have micron-scale positioning accuracy lol22:01
Thetawavesyou could probably do better with some belts and a high def encoder22:01
azonenbergAgain, these are just ideas and i havent done any real research on it22:02
azonenbergRight now i have more immediate problems at hand22:02
azonenbergLike the 100-odd exams i need to have graded ASAP22:02
Thetawaves<- machine tool enthusiast22:02
azonenbergI want to get better at machining too, i'm competent but no expert22:02
azonenbergthing is, i dont hav ethe time right now :(22:03
Thetawaveswhat a shame22:03
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