#homecmos IRC log for Thursday, 2011-08-25

azonenbergOrdering some more gloves and diamond polishing compound from ted pella now00:16
kristianpaulnice wire ;)03:41
kristianpaulbut dont beat this http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=File:Mm_thsf.pdf&page=3203:44
nathan7azonenberg: any progress on the grating?14:03
bart416A guy here got arrested just for storing a lot of chemicals in his house >_>14:06
bart416And I just ordered a new stack of catalogues for chemical products, lawl14:07
bart416Mail man is going to go "wtf"14:07
Helldesk"paper? in this day and age?!"16:24
azonenbergnathan7: Got delayed with all this silly grad school orientation paperwork16:40
azonenberggoing to do a test run soon, tonight maybe16:40
azonenbergbart416: what sort of chems?16:40
azonenbergand, just as importantly, in what volumes?16:41
bart416general analytic chemistry16:41
bart416lab quantities16:41
azonenbergSo what are they complaining about?16:41
bart416(up to 5l batches)16:41
bart416oh wait you mean the guy that got arrested?16:41
bart416News reports didn't say16:41
bart416But he stacked most of his house, lol16:41
azonenbergThats a bit excessive16:41
azonenbergand i guess "lab quantities" depends on the type of work16:42
bart416And then he managed to light his attic on fire with 9V batteries >_>16:42
nathan7o.o16:42
azonenbergThe most i'd ever order of anything is ~1 liter16:42
bart416I meant what I'm ordering :P16:42
azonenbergand thats only if i cant get a 500ml bottle16:42
nathan7I need a little RP and it's fucking impossible to get16:42
nathan7bloody meth chemists16:42
nathan7s/chemists/cooks/16:42
nathan7they aren't even chemists proper16:42
azonenbergYeah16:42
azonenbergsame thing is annoying me about ethanol16:42
azonenbergi cant get pure ethanol for lab purposes easily16:43
nathan7cranking out goddamn neurotoxic crap16:43
nathan7that only gives you euphoria16:43
nathan7at great cost too16:43
azonenbergethanol is a solvent for crying out loud... let me use it lol16:43
nathan7mhm16:43
azonenbergdont deliberately contaminate it with stuff to prevent people from drinking it :P16:43
azonenbergi want ACS reagent grade16:44
azonenbergor, better yet, trace metal grade :p16:44
bart416Order through college/university if you can16:44
nathan7I should annoy my chem teacher for that RP if I don't manage to get it soon16:45
bart416(also I meant the catalogs I ordered were for analytic chemistry in lab quantities)16:45
azonenbergoh16:45
azonenbergjust saying, if i could get most of the stuff i have16:45
azonenbergin 100ml volumes16:45
azonenbergi would16:45
bart416100ml but what purity?16:46
azonenbergTrace metal, standard reagent, or in some cases even technical grade16:46
azonenbergfor example i have a *two pound* jar of KOH flakes i use for anisotropic silicon etching16:47
azonenberga hundred grams would last me a long time16:47
azonenbergi really dont need more16:47
nathan7well give it to me16:47
nathan7I need some, damn't16:47
azonenbergAnd it's tech grade but i dont care, it's pure enough for my purposes16:47
azonenbergnathan7: could be a little tricky to get to you, dont you think? :p16:48
nathan7Yeah.16:49
bart416meh, pack it in sealed plastic bag17:18
bart416mail17:18
bart416lol17:18
nathan7 true17:32
bart416I've shipped chemicals like that before lol17:33
bart416Like boric acid I've shipped that way several times17:33
bart416Though I guess customs might be less friendly about that17:36
nathan7mhm17:54
nathan7AH, I don't need to phosphorus17:54
nathan7*the phosphorus17:57
berndjazonenberg, if you ever feel you have too much KOH, use it to clean the drains!18:04
nathan7that's a waste man18:04
nathan7use NaOH for that18:04
berndjlol, yeah18:04
nathan7not trace-metal grade KOH18:04
azonenbergnathan7: I've actually used extra developer solution for doing that lol18:26
azonenbergand my koh isnt trace metal grade18:26
azonenbergi also dont know if its even possible18:26
azonenbergall the K+18:27
azonenbergor maybe it'd mean free of trace metals besides potassium18:27
nathan7heh18:31
nathan7yeah18:31
azonenbergnathan7: Thats why i dont have a waste jar for developer solution lol18:32
azonenbergThe MSDS indicates that once the solvents are evaporated the developer itself is considered non-hazardous18:32
azonenbergthe resist*18:32
azonenbergAnd i have a slow drain in one of the bathrooms18:32
nathan7oic18:33
azonenbergSo i can get rid of waste while cleaning my drains in one go18:33
azonenbergthough obvs if i was generating more than a few ml per week i'd do something else18:33
azonenbergThe three main categories of waste i store due to lack of an easy way to permanently render them non-hazardous are18:34
azonenberg* used metal etchant (HCL : H2O2 : H2O plus Cu?Cl? and Cr?Cl?)18:34
azonenberg* used HF18:35
azonenberg* used solvents (mix of ethanol, methanol, acetone, isopropanol)18:35
azonenbergand i just take them down to the city household-waste disposal day every few months18:35
berndjfor HF: can you add CaCl2?  to precipitate out fluorspar?18:35
azonenbergberndj: I've considered attempting that once i have a significant volume18:35
berndjmight want to add pH-raising stuff too18:36
azonenbergBut right now i have maybe 5 ml18:36
azonenbergi dont generate much of it18:36
azonenbergberndj: As of now i do not generate a significant amount of alkaline waste18:36
azonenbergthe developer solution is very dilute and dispose legitimately for drain cleaning18:36
azonenbergThe 30% KOH i'm still on my first batch18:36
berndjthe solvents you mentioned - i'd just dispose of them in the next bbq fire :}18:36
azonenbergbut i'll make a waste jar for that when it runs low18:36
azonenbergberndj: they have other stuff in them18:36
azonenbergwhatever i cleaned using it18:37
berndjoh the "used" part of "used solvents"18:37
azonenbergLike i said, i have a free, safe, and legal way to dispose of it18:37
azonenbergSo i just store until then18:37
azonenbergthe volumes are minimal - each waste jar is 900 ml and none are more than around half full18:37
azonenbergused metal etch is a little more since i add both the contents of the beaker and the first rinse to the waste jar18:37
azonenbergHF even with rinsing the quantities involved are minimal (1ml per ten or fifteen etches)18:38
azonenbergthe metal etch i dont store since H2O2 degrades18:38
azonenbergand i dont have light-tight storage for it18:38
azonenbergi dont reuse*18:38
azonenbergHF and KOH solutions i reuse until they show a visible decrease in etch rate18:39
azonenbergi've considered figuring out neutralization methods for the rest but its not really worth it18:39
berndjadd NaOH to your HF, mix with loads of milled sand, fluorinated toothpaste!18:39
azonenbergif i had to pay to dispose of them i might consider ways to neutralize myself18:39
azonenbergI was considering CaCl2 for the HF if i generated a lot18:39
berndjspeaking of etching solution, i need to figure out a way to store it between runs18:40
azonenbergand i'm told there are ways to precipitate metal chlorides out as well18:40
berndjso i don't end up with rusted tools18:40
azonenbergso i could theoretically neutralize my etching solution by doing that reaction, whatever it is18:40
azonenbergfollowed by buffering to neutral pH18:40
azonenbergBut with under a liter of waste for the whole summer's work and collection day in a week? Not worth it18:41
berndjif you have a swimming pool you'll know all about precipitating stuff out18:41
berndjsoda ash to get the calcium out, "alum powder" for Cu, Fe, and others18:41
azonenbergInteresting18:42
azonenbergI might try that at some point but like i said right now its not really worth doing18:42
berndjvery few carbonates are soluble at non-acidic pH18:42
azonenbergi'll let the professionals handle it until and unless i start having to pay for disposal18:42
berndjis your Cu?Cl? pure Cu or mixed with Cr?18:43
azonenbergI used HCl : H2O2 to etch printed circuit boards (basically pure Cu) as well as my chips, which have a micron of copper over 5nm Cr in one etch18:44
azonenberg5nm * area of etch is a minimal volume18:44
azonenbergThe same solution can be used to etch Al but my current batch of waste doesnt have any aluminum ions in it18:44
azonenberglast one did18:44
berndjhmm, does HCl + H2O2 attack Al?  does it get through the oxide layer?18:45
nathan7err18:55
nathan7Dilute NaOH would work well18:55
nathan7but HCl works too18:55
nathan7just HCl will do though18:57
nathan7the H2O2 is only to oxidise copper18:57
nathan7but anything below copper doesn't really need it18:57
berndjnathan7, yes re NaOH + Al, was just wondering about the Al2O3 layer (which NaOH attacks)21:02
azonenbergnathan7: Yeah, i usually use dilute HCl for aluminum22:10
azonenbergBut it goes in the same waste jar22:10
azonenbergas it's still "acid waste containing transition metal chlorides"22:10
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