| azonenberg | Ordering some more gloves and diamond polishing compound from ted pella now | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | nice wire ;) | 03:41 |
| kristianpaul | but dont beat this http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=File:Mm_thsf.pdf&page=32 | 03:44 |
| nathan7 | azonenberg: any progress on the grating? | 14:03 |
| bart416 | A guy here got arrested just for storing a lot of chemicals in his house >_> | 14:06 |
| bart416 | And I just ordered a new stack of catalogues for chemical products, lawl | 14:07 |
| bart416 | Mail man is going to go "wtf" | 14:07 |
| Helldesk | "paper? in this day and age?!" | 16:24 |
| azonenberg | nathan7: Got delayed with all this silly grad school orientation paperwork | 16:40 |
| azonenberg | going to do a test run soon, tonight maybe | 16:40 |
| azonenberg | bart416: what sort of chems? | 16:40 |
| azonenberg | and, just as importantly, in what volumes? | 16:41 |
| bart416 | general analytic chemistry | 16:41 |
| bart416 | lab quantities | 16:41 |
| azonenberg | So what are they complaining about? | 16:41 |
| bart416 | (up to 5l batches) | 16:41 |
| bart416 | oh wait you mean the guy that got arrested? | 16:41 |
| bart416 | News reports didn't say | 16:41 |
| bart416 | But he stacked most of his house, lol | 16:41 |
| azonenberg | Thats a bit excessive | 16:41 |
| azonenberg | and i guess "lab quantities" depends on the type of work | 16:42 |
| bart416 | And then he managed to light his attic on fire with 9V batteries >_> | 16:42 |
| nathan7 | o.o | 16:42 |
| azonenberg | The most i'd ever order of anything is ~1 liter | 16:42 |
| bart416 | I meant what I'm ordering :P | 16:42 |
| azonenberg | and thats only if i cant get a 500ml bottle | 16:42 |
| nathan7 | I need a little RP and it's fucking impossible to get | 16:42 |
| nathan7 | bloody meth chemists | 16:42 |
| nathan7 | s/chemists/cooks/ | 16:42 |
| nathan7 | they aren't even chemists proper | 16:42 |
| azonenberg | Yeah | 16:42 |
| azonenberg | same thing is annoying me about ethanol | 16:42 |
| azonenberg | i cant get pure ethanol for lab purposes easily | 16:43 |
| nathan7 | cranking out goddamn neurotoxic crap | 16:43 |
| nathan7 | that only gives you euphoria | 16:43 |
| nathan7 | at great cost too | 16:43 |
| azonenberg | ethanol is a solvent for crying out loud... let me use it lol | 16:43 |
| nathan7 | mhm | 16:43 |
| azonenberg | dont deliberately contaminate it with stuff to prevent people from drinking it :P | 16:43 |
| azonenberg | i want ACS reagent grade | 16:44 |
| azonenberg | or, better yet, trace metal grade :p | 16:44 |
| bart416 | Order through college/university if you can | 16:44 |
| nathan7 | I should annoy my chem teacher for that RP if I don't manage to get it soon | 16:45 |
| bart416 | (also I meant the catalogs I ordered were for analytic chemistry in lab quantities) | 16:45 |
| azonenberg | oh | 16:45 |
| azonenberg | just saying, if i could get most of the stuff i have | 16:45 |
| azonenberg | in 100ml volumes | 16:45 |
| azonenberg | i would | 16:45 |
| bart416 | 100ml but what purity? | 16:46 |
| azonenberg | Trace metal, standard reagent, or in some cases even technical grade | 16:46 |
| azonenberg | for example i have a *two pound* jar of KOH flakes i use for anisotropic silicon etching | 16:47 |
| azonenberg | a hundred grams would last me a long time | 16:47 |
| azonenberg | i really dont need more | 16:47 |
| nathan7 | well give it to me | 16:47 |
| nathan7 | I need some, damn't | 16:47 |
| azonenberg | And it's tech grade but i dont care, it's pure enough for my purposes | 16:47 |
| azonenberg | nathan7: could be a little tricky to get to you, dont you think? :p | 16:48 |
| nathan7 | Yeah. | 16:49 |
| bart416 | meh, pack it in sealed plastic bag | 17:18 |
| bart416 | 17:18 | |
| bart416 | lol | 17:18 |
| nathan7 | true | 17:32 |
| bart416 | I've shipped chemicals like that before lol | 17:33 |
| bart416 | Like boric acid I've shipped that way several times | 17:33 |
| bart416 | Though I guess customs might be less friendly about that | 17:36 |
| nathan7 | mhm | 17:54 |
| nathan7 | AH, I don't need to phosphorus | 17:54 |
| nathan7 | *the phosphorus | 17:57 |
| berndj | azonenberg, if you ever feel you have too much KOH, use it to clean the drains! | 18:04 |
| nathan7 | that's a waste man | 18:04 |
| nathan7 | use NaOH for that | 18:04 |
| berndj | lol, yeah | 18:04 |
| nathan7 | not trace-metal grade KOH | 18:04 |
| azonenberg | nathan7: I've actually used extra developer solution for doing that lol | 18:26 |
| azonenberg | and my koh isnt trace metal grade | 18:26 |
| azonenberg | i also dont know if its even possible | 18:26 |
| azonenberg | all the K+ | 18:27 |
| azonenberg | or maybe it'd mean free of trace metals besides potassium | 18:27 |
| nathan7 | heh | 18:31 |
| nathan7 | yeah | 18:31 |
| azonenberg | nathan7: Thats why i dont have a waste jar for developer solution lol | 18:32 |
| azonenberg | The MSDS indicates that once the solvents are evaporated the developer itself is considered non-hazardous | 18:32 |
| azonenberg | the resist* | 18:32 |
| azonenberg | And i have a slow drain in one of the bathrooms | 18:32 |
| nathan7 | oic | 18:33 |
| azonenberg | So i can get rid of waste while cleaning my drains in one go | 18:33 |
| azonenberg | though obvs if i was generating more than a few ml per week i'd do something else | 18:33 |
| azonenberg | The three main categories of waste i store due to lack of an easy way to permanently render them non-hazardous are | 18:34 |
| azonenberg | * used metal etchant (HCL : H2O2 : H2O plus Cu?Cl? and Cr?Cl?) | 18:34 |
| azonenberg | * used HF | 18:35 |
| azonenberg | * used solvents (mix of ethanol, methanol, acetone, isopropanol) | 18:35 |
| azonenberg | and i just take them down to the city household-waste disposal day every few months | 18:35 |
| berndj | for HF: can you add CaCl2? to precipitate out fluorspar? | 18:35 |
| azonenberg | berndj: I've considered attempting that once i have a significant volume | 18:35 |
| berndj | might want to add pH-raising stuff too | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | But right now i have maybe 5 ml | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | i dont generate much of it | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | berndj: As of now i do not generate a significant amount of alkaline waste | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | the developer solution is very dilute and dispose legitimately for drain cleaning | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | The 30% KOH i'm still on my first batch | 18:36 |
| berndj | the solvents you mentioned - i'd just dispose of them in the next bbq fire :} | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | but i'll make a waste jar for that when it runs low | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | berndj: they have other stuff in them | 18:36 |
| azonenberg | whatever i cleaned using it | 18:37 |
| berndj | oh the "used" part of "used solvents" | 18:37 |
| azonenberg | Like i said, i have a free, safe, and legal way to dispose of it | 18:37 |
| azonenberg | So i just store until then | 18:37 |
| azonenberg | the volumes are minimal - each waste jar is 900 ml and none are more than around half full | 18:37 |
| azonenberg | used metal etch is a little more since i add both the contents of the beaker and the first rinse to the waste jar | 18:37 |
| azonenberg | HF even with rinsing the quantities involved are minimal (1ml per ten or fifteen etches) | 18:38 |
| azonenberg | the metal etch i dont store since H2O2 degrades | 18:38 |
| azonenberg | and i dont have light-tight storage for it | 18:38 |
| azonenberg | i dont reuse* | 18:38 |
| azonenberg | HF and KOH solutions i reuse until they show a visible decrease in etch rate | 18:39 |
| azonenberg | i've considered figuring out neutralization methods for the rest but its not really worth it | 18:39 |
| berndj | add NaOH to your HF, mix with loads of milled sand, fluorinated toothpaste! | 18:39 |
| azonenberg | if i had to pay to dispose of them i might consider ways to neutralize myself | 18:39 |
| azonenberg | I was considering CaCl2 for the HF if i generated a lot | 18:39 |
| berndj | speaking of etching solution, i need to figure out a way to store it between runs | 18:40 |
| azonenberg | and i'm told there are ways to precipitate metal chlorides out as well | 18:40 |
| berndj | so i don't end up with rusted tools | 18:40 |
| azonenberg | so i could theoretically neutralize my etching solution by doing that reaction, whatever it is | 18:40 |
| azonenberg | followed by buffering to neutral pH | 18:40 |
| azonenberg | But with under a liter of waste for the whole summer's work and collection day in a week? Not worth it | 18:41 |
| berndj | if you have a swimming pool you'll know all about precipitating stuff out | 18:41 |
| berndj | soda ash to get the calcium out, "alum powder" for Cu, Fe, and others | 18:41 |
| azonenberg | Interesting | 18:42 |
| azonenberg | I might try that at some point but like i said right now its not really worth doing | 18:42 |
| berndj | very few carbonates are soluble at non-acidic pH | 18:42 |
| azonenberg | i'll let the professionals handle it until and unless i start having to pay for disposal | 18:42 |
| berndj | is your Cu?Cl? pure Cu or mixed with Cr? | 18:43 |
| azonenberg | I used HCl : H2O2 to etch printed circuit boards (basically pure Cu) as well as my chips, which have a micron of copper over 5nm Cr in one etch | 18:44 |
| azonenberg | 5nm * area of etch is a minimal volume | 18:44 |
| azonenberg | The same solution can be used to etch Al but my current batch of waste doesnt have any aluminum ions in it | 18:44 |
| azonenberg | last one did | 18:44 |
| berndj | hmm, does HCl + H2O2 attack Al? does it get through the oxide layer? | 18:45 |
| nathan7 | err | 18:55 |
| nathan7 | Dilute NaOH would work well | 18:55 |
| nathan7 | but HCl works too | 18:55 |
| nathan7 | just HCl will do though | 18:57 |
| nathan7 | the H2O2 is only to oxidise copper | 18:57 |
| nathan7 | but anything below copper doesn't really need it | 18:57 |
| berndj | nathan7, yes re NaOH + Al, was just wondering about the Al2O3 layer (which NaOH attacks) | 21:02 |
| azonenberg | nathan7: Yeah, i usually use dilute HCl for aluminum | 22:10 |
| azonenberg | But it goes in the same waste jar | 22:10 |
| azonenberg | as it's still "acid waste containing transition metal chlorides" | 22:10 |
| --- Fri Aug 26 2011 | 00:00 | |
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