#homecmos IRC log for Saturday, 2011-08-20

bart416berndj, bismuth won't melt at room temperature but you can still easily melt it on your kitchen stove06:33
bart416And it's less toxic than lead06:34
nathan7bart416: 'less toxic than lead'08:28
nathan7bart416: well that's reassuring08:28
bart416nathan7, you don't want to rub it along your skin08:28
bart416Or eat it08:29
bart416that's about it08:29
nathan7it's bloody heavy08:30
Helldesk"Bismuth has unusually low toxicity for a heavy metal." claims the wikipedia article11:11
Helldesksome isotopes of bismuth have potential use in extremely targeted cancer therapy, and then there's pepto-bismol of course11:13
Helldeskwith bismuth subsalicylate as the active ingredient11:13
bart416wikipedia probably won't even mention its more fun uses11:21
lekernelthere's merbromin too :-)11:47
lekernelwith mercury and brome, used as antiseptic for minor cuts11:48
bart416bismuth also makes for an excellent gamma radiation shield11:54
bart416(It's on par with lead for that)11:54
bart416Stupid NDA >_>11:55
lekernelwhy isn't it used more often for radiation shielding? more expensive than lead?12:47
bart416It is often used for radiation shielding...12:52
bart416Its also used as a coolant in reactors12:52
bart416(due to its low melting point)12:52
bart416lekernel, uhm ever had a ct?12:54
bart416CT scan12:55
bart416That's a place where you'll commonly find it lightweight shielding to limit radiation exposure12:55
bart416Like if they need to take a chest ct they'll often give you a something to shield your neck and belly12:56
bart416That's a place where you'll find bismuth12:56
bart416Fits the bill perfectly12:56
lekernelwell, I also visited two nuclear reactors and a nuclear shelter, and took apart an old xray machine, all used lead for shielding :)12:56
bart416Well yeah, lead has better mechanical properties12:57
nathan7Helldesk: what's all this sub-shit?13:52
azonenbergbart416: i just asssumed they were all lead based lol17:36
bart416azonenberg, they're not20:22
bart416bismuth has only been in use the past 10 years or so though20:22
bart416So old equipment is generally still lead based20:22
bart416bismuth is actually a by product of extracting lead from ores20:22
bart416So they sort of stacked up a pretty big supply throughout the years20:23
bart416btw, the soviets have been using it a lot longer20:27
bart416That being said, I'd better shut up about this before 1) I get arrested 2) I get somebody killed due to my BAC being fairly high after a bottle of wine20:31
bart416azonenberg, do you think it'd be viable to power a small railgun with smd capacitors?20:38
azonenbergbart416: Define small :P20:40
bart416Imagine rifle size20:40
azonenbergMy immediate thought is no20:41
azonenbergnone of them are rated for even close to high voltage20:41
azonenbergwith decent capacitance20:41
bart416well, if you use copper tubing it doesn't have to be high voltage though20:41
XgFbart416: copper tubing isn't viable for a 'usable' rail gun20:41
bart416define usable :P20:42
XgFProjectile travels more than 10cm out of the gun before hitting floor :p20:43
bart416Nah you get them to go way further than 10 cm actually :P20:43
XgFAlso, you'd want some form of injection system so you don't have to accelerate the projectile from a dead stop20:43
bart416You can't accelerate projectiles from dead stop20:43
bart416I've built enough railguns before XgF :p20:43
bart416And copper tubing isn't nearly as bad as you'd think :S20:44
bart416Obviously solid strips of copper are better20:44
XgFStill, magnetic launchers have efficiency which significantly increases with voltage20:44
bart416The current is important, not the voltage20:44
bart416Worst case scenario I put some capacitors in series to raise the voltage rating eh :P20:45
XgFIndeed, but increased voltage -> increased current for a given rail resistance. Increased voltage also -> significantly denser energy packing in the capacitor bank20:45
bart416that is true20:46
bart416but that's the reason why you'd be using smd in the first place20:46
bart416you can densly pack pcbs20:46
bart416and stack them20:46
bart416+ its far lighter than conventional capacitor banks20:46
XgF...Requires experimentation20:46
Action: XgF wishes carbon aerogel capacitors didn't have such high ESRs20:48
bart416best weapon we ever built that used magnets was a few motor stators + lab PSUs + leds + light sensors20:49
bart416We embedded a piece of metal into the wall...20:49
bart416That was in highschool, heh20:49
bart416damn was that teacher pissed20:49
azonenberghow deep and what kind of wall?20:50
XgFDo transformers count? I'd say that my flyback generator was "most likely to injure"20:50
azonenberga foot into concrete vs a quarter inch into sheetrock is a big \delta20:50
XgF...though throwing the PSU transformer at them may be more effective :p20:51
bart416standard european brick wall20:51
bart416was in the air gap of the wall20:51
bart416rectified 380V 3 phase...20:52
XgFI think its the general rule with magnetic weapons: Unless they're really really big, you may be better of throwing the PSU/caps/whatever at them :p20:52
XgF380V 3 phase? Odd voltage20:52
bart416Not really :S20:52
bart416380V 3 phase is standard in Europe for machines20:53
Action: XgF is used to 415V 3phase20:53
bart416Where do you live?20:53
bart416Yeah but UK has always been using its own system20:54
XgFAah... former 220V country? 400 would be European harmonised, 415 UK norm, 380 norm for a former 220 country20:54
bart416I've never found 400V RMS on a 3 phase outlet XgF20:55
bart416Always 380-390V20:55
bart4161 phase it's 220-240V20:56
XgFEverythings slightly crazy over here at the moment... all of our distribution equipment has stickers on it warning you that inside you'll find two sets of wiring colours20:56
XgFOld stuff to the old UK standard; new stuff to EU harmonised standard20:56
bart416Here we just slap together what we find of wires except in the fuse box20:56
bart416Cause they actually bother to check that20:56
bart416Everything else, meh just pick what you want20:56
XgFRequires some care; old neutral (black) is now a phase colour20:57
bart416though yellow-green for earth20:57
bart416black is still used for neutral here as far as I know :S20:57
bart416Sometimes blue20:57
XgFAt least new neutral is light blue as opposed to old phase plain blue20:57
bart416Phases are usually red-ish tints20:58
bart416Red, Brown, Orange, ...20:58
bart416Seen yellow as well a few times in older machines20:58
XgFStill, if you talk about phases around here, we still think in the old (Red, Yellow, Blue) colours. We care because blue is atatched to the fire alarm system20:58
XgFFire alarm goes off -> Blue phase goes off -> PA system goes off -> people can hear the fire alarm20:59
XgFAlso, audio stuff tends to get... noisy... if you put it on the same phase as, say, 6 3kW strobes :P21:00
bart416Almost as bad as when we make that CNC lathe at a friend's machine shop spin up to speed >_>21:01
bart416You can see the lights dim, lol21:01
XgFAll audio gear goes on blue phase firstly as a anti-noise precaution, secondly because any audio gear which makes noise must go off in event of a fire21:01
XgF...metal bands are notorious for ridiculously loud guitar cabs21:02
bart416Talking about metal bands21:02
bart416Graspop (large metal festival) few years ago21:02
bart416It's a few kilometers away from a nuclear powerplant eh21:03
bart416They had no power :')21:03
bart416Electricity fell out21:03
XgFFestivals tend to run on gen sets21:03
bart416If you turned your head 10° you could see the reactor dome in the background >_>21:03
bart416I doubt they were running on generators that close to a powerplant21:03
XgFTends to be hard to get ~400A 3-Phase supplies installed into the middle of a field21:03
XgFHiring out a genset works out cheaper21:04
bart416Nah, the festival is always on the same spot and has been there for so long that they ensured that they can tap off the grid actually21:04
bart416A lot of heavy industry nearby so not much of an issue I guess21:04
XgF'fair enough. I just know that even Glastonbury here runs off gen sets21:05
bart416They had a nice row of fences to prevent people from walking to the transformers actually >_>21:05
bart416Nice thick 380V power cords, a lot of them21:05
bart416Was pretty freaky actually21:05
bart416the camping did run of generators though I think21:06
XgFProbably a set of 5 camlocks per feed :)21:06
bart416But it's sort of sad if you tap power of the grid21:07
bart416You can see the reactor in the background21:07
bart416And you have no power21:07
bart416It's really just :')21:07
bart416It's priceless actually21:07
bart416But yeah where were we21:08
XgFIn the past we've had people get confused because a few of our trips have a time delay before they can be closed again...21:08
bart416Rectified 380V 3 phase makes for an excellent powersource for magnetic weapons21:08
XgFI can imagine. Unfortunately, I don't think I'd get permission to plug into one of our 125A sockets :p21:09
bart416Can't remember how much the current limitation was21:10
bart416Was pretty high21:10
XgF...I think they've brought us up to 5 125A sockets in one of our buildings now (+1 125A breakered at 100A)21:10
XgFI don't know if theres actually capacity to run all of them at once or not, however :p21:11
bart416Well yeah, the highschool had a pretty nice machine park so they actually needed the ability to draw full power on their 3 phase outlets21:12
bart416But now I'd just love to try out some of these things in the motor lab at college now21:12
bart416They tap directly of the high voltage grid21:12
bart416And have their own transformer as far as I know21:12
XgFIt's an octagon shaped room... which means that various events want to run in random corners of it21:13
bart416why octagon? :S21:13
XgFDunno. maybe they decided upon the name "The Octagon Center" and then thought it would be a good shape :p21:13
XgFSo practically you're never going to use more than 3 of the sockets (+ the 100A one, since that feeds the dimmer pack)21:13
bart416yay, only 4 more rar files to go and I'll have all elektor things from 1980 till 201021:17
XgFRAR is a damned inconvinient archive format21:18
XgFWhenever I need to open one, I never have software to do so21:18
bart416I have winrar installed on all my computers so not much of an issue21:20
XgFInstalling WinRAR on my Macbook would prove challenging21:20
bart416You deserve to get shot for using a mac anyway21:20
bart416Crappy expensive laptops21:21
azonenberglol indeed21:21
XgFWhen I sell it in a couple of years, I'll get back the extra I paid for it, and if anything breaks, I can walk into an Apple store and have them fix it for me that day :p21:21
bart416In college last year "how do I get eagle to work on my macbook????" :|21:21
azonenbergOr you could use a sawzall21:21
XgFInstall it21:22
bart416"how do I get this cisco vpn client to work on my macbook?"21:22
azonenbergNever fails to remove the offending mac from your life21:22
bart416"how do I get ... to work on my macbook?"21:22
bart416XgF, do like me21:22
XgFServes all the roles in my life Linux used to... without every other package coming broken21:22
bart416buy a thinkpad21:22
azonenbergbart416: sudo apt-get install c4-explosive; sudo c4-explosive --detonate21:22
azonenbergfrom a livecd on the mac21:22
bart416azonenberg, detonator not found21:22
azonenbergah, i remember now21:23
bart416dpkg-reconfigure c4-explosive --install-detonator21:23
XgF(...does Bluetooth work on Linux yet? I mean, I had a generic Bluetooth USB dongle and it refused to work)21:23
azonenbergc4-blastingcap i think is the package21:23
bart416But really thinkpads are the best laptops I've ever used21:23
azonenbergit's listed in the recommended packages but isnt installed by default for safety reasons :p21:23
bart416almost impossible to destroy21:23
bart416great hardware support21:23
bart416almost no pre installed crap21:23
XgFNah. Like every PC laptop, their trackpads are a peice of shit sent from hell21:23
bart416and matte screen!21:23
bart416Yeah but thinkpads have the red dot as mouse :P21:24
XgFThat is a flaming peice of shit sent from hell :p21:24
bart416Nah, its awesome21:24
bart416It's for when you're jumping out of an airplane and can't operate the touchpad easily21:24
XgFAll laptops should come with multitouch trackpads a standard21:24
bart416You can use the red dot21:24
bart416The thinkpad doesn't need a parachute btw21:25
bart416It has a built in set of rockets to slow down when it nears the ground21:25
bart416Together with an auto deploying airbag21:25
bart416Or something like that21:25
bart416I've seen a thinkpad drop from the astronomy club tower (4 floors high)21:26
bart416onto pretty hard ground21:26
bart416All it said was "powercord unplugged"21:26
XgFMy general line of thought was "I need a laptop. It must be Unixy. Linux requires too much fucking around. Every other Unix requires at least as much fucking around as Linux. This leaves me with only one option"21:26
bart416Nah on thinkpads it works smoothly21:27
XgFLinux doesn't work smootly (enough) on anything21:27
bart416On thinkpads it does21:27
bart416Never needed to install any driver21:27
bart416Everything I needed came with the standard debian dvds21:28
XgFIf I plug in my phone, it should automatically configure it to work as a cellular modem. If I plug in a Bluetooth dongle, it should enable Bluetooth.21:28
bart416that's peripherals though21:28
bart416That's another subject21:28
XgF...The Bluetooth dongle should work simply, damnit. There is one standard which every USB dongle supports21:29
bart416not really21:29
bart416I've never ever seen any usb device stick to a standard completely21:29
bart416Not even damned usb drives can get it right at times21:29
XgFRight, but they're all pretty close21:30
bart416^how about those capacitors21:32
XgF1nF... not gonna get much energy into them unless in ridiculous bulk21:33
azonenbergLol yeah21:36
azonenbergyou need a few hundred uf21:36
azonenbergat least21:36
XgFI can't get to Farnell BE from here... but I would say that even if you can afford the hundreds of thousands required, they'd probably end up more bulky21:37
bart416well yeah, I'm not looking at going in excess of 200 m/s for this :P21:37
bart416also, wrong link21:38
bart416capacitors I'm looking at are 1uF 100V21:39
bart416still not really sufficient in my opinion21:39
XgFQuick calculations say 20J/g for 200m/s21:39
XgF(of course assuming 100% efficiency. unlikely)21:39
azonenbergYeah lol21:39
azonenberg20 kJ is more like what you should be trying for21:39
azonenbergfor a couple of grams to a few hundred m/s21:40
bart416I'd need roughly 4 farad for that though21:41
azonenbergbart416: no, you need higher voltage :P21:41
azonenberga few hundred uf at 4 kV21:41
bart416at 4kV you'd still need 2.5 mF ;)21:41
azonenbergSoudns about right21:42
azonenberg6x 350 uf?21:42
XgFSo we're talking something ~50BMG sized :p21:42
azonenbergthats what the electronics club at my school had in their HV cap bank21:42
azonenbergXgF: This cap bank was laser discharge caps21:42
bart416I already have a large high voltage capacitor bank21:42
bart416I want a smd version though21:42
azonenberg2-inch high ceramic insulators on top21:42
azonenbergthe things weighed 75 pounds each21:43
azonenbergbut could discharge in microseconds21:43
bart416That's also why smd21:43
bart416smd capacitors are more ideal21:43
azonenbergAnd how much current do you plan to run through these tiny little 30 micron thick traces? :P21:45
XgFI've heard that some of the bigger rail guns use flywheels21:45
bart416azonenberg, that's the beauty of the thing, you only need the traces until you reach the connectors21:45
bart416+ it's short duration so the copper can handle it21:46
XgF+ do like PSU manufacturers and solder some copper along the length of the trace21:46
azonenberg600 pf though21:46
bart416yeah that's not so ideal21:46
XgF0.013 J/cap21:47
azonenberg100nf / 1kV21:48
bart416I'd rather order from farnell azonenberg :P21:48
bart416I can order from farnell through college21:48
bart416no shipping fees, no taxes21:48
azonenbergFind the part first21:48
azonenbergthen figure out where to get it21:48
bart416also, price needs to be reasonable eh21:50
bart416I'm not going to pay €1 / capacitor21:50
bart416two of those would do21:59
bart416for a small railgun21:59
azonenbergkinda pricey?21:59
bart416and it only weights ~5kg in total >_>21:59
bart416yeah exactly21:59
bart416meh screw this22:09
bart416How hard can it possibly be to make your own ceramic capacitors? :P22:10
azonenbergMaking them work as well as commercial ones? Hard22:11
bart416yeah that's the thing22:13
bart416I know how to make tantalum capacitors actually22:14
bart416The process isn't that hard22:14
bart416But the equipment is horribly expensive22:14
bart416Need a vacuum furnance capable of doing roughly 1500°C22:14
XgFAlso, commercial tantalums are prone enough to deciding they'd rather be on fire22:14
lekernel475,94¬ for 860uF at 1.5kV?22:14
lekernelbetter use a combination of electrolytics from disposable cameras :-)22:14
bart416lol XgF22:15
bart416If it's on fire you can lob at the thing you're shooting at :P22:16
bart416electrolytics are horrible for railguns though lekernel22:16
azonenbergbart416: sputtered / evaporated aluminum22:17
azonenbergthen PECVD SiO222:18
azonenbergthen more aluminum :P22:18
azonenbergActually, not SiO2 - use a high-K material22:18
azonenbergmaybe sputtered Ta2O522:18
bart416azonenberg, copper plates with titanium dioxide as dielectric22:30
berndjXgF, i find the blue/brown scheme totally crazy compared to red/black22:40
berndjit's like going from 100% intuitive to 30% confusing22:40
XgFberndj: It is colour blind safe22:40
berndjcompare blue from single-phase wiring with blue from 3-phase wiring - see a blue wire... which is it!22:40
XgFBlue is always neutral22:41
XgFBrown, Black, Gray (IIRC) are phase22:41
berndjblue is always neutral except when the other wire is brown22:44
XgFWha? EU harmomisation says blue is always neutral22:45
berndjoh, i guess black is another one then: new 3-phase phase wire or old neutral?22:46
berndjer, i misspoke. blue is always neutral except when the other wires are red and yellow22:46
XgFWell, if you see "Red, yellow, blue, black" you have old standard; "brown, black, grey, light blue" you have new harmonised standard22:47
azonenbergAnd in the USA black i think is usually hot :P22:47
azonenbergwhite neutral and green ground22:47
azonenberg(in single phase wiring)22:47
berndjdunno, but i find the old colours a million times less confusing; granted, i'm not colour-blind, that's a valid argument22:48
berndjyeah, at least green/yellow is universally earth!22:48
Action: XgF wonders when ring mains are going to be dropped from the regs22:49
berndjour appliances are all brown/blue but afaik house wiring is still red/black22:50
XgFThey're obsolete22:50
XgFThe UK only changed install wiring a few years ago22:50
berndji think brown/blue house wiring is _allowed_ but not required22:50
berndjdamn those europeans and their funny colours!22:51
XgFAlso, people seem to like installing ring mains even when a radial would be cheaper. like our kitchen fitter22:51
berndji was under the impression ring mains were actually _required_ in the uk?22:51
XgFBoth sides of the ring run *taped together* behind all our kitchen units. It would have been cheaper to buy one 32A cable22:51
berndjperhaps with emphasis on "were" - past tense22:52
XgFNever required22:52
berndjhere ring mains are quasi-strictly verboten22:52
XgFPresumably radials fused at >16A are too?22:53
XgFbeing as your plugs aren't fused22:53
berndjnope; you're allowed to have up to 20A with socket outlets rated at 17A22:53
XgFOK, up to 20A22:53
berndjour plugs aren't fused, but GFCI has been mandatory for decades22:54
XgFsame here22:54
XgFHere I think up to 32A is allowed to sockets22:54
berndj32A... wow22:54
berndjoh, but your plugs are fused22:54
XgFIf memory serves me... some engineers carry 125A three phase to 230V british standard plug adaptors to plug their kettle into :p22:55
XgFNot sure on the exact legality of that without intervening circuit breakers22:55
azonenbergIn my living room here in the USA we have three 20A circuits22:55
berndjlol @ 125A.  my house breaker is only 60A22:55
bart416On 110V I guess azonenberg ?22:55
azonenbergeach one has somewhere between 2 and 4 plates, each with 2x 15A outlets22:55
bart416Urgh :|22:56
XgFberndj: 125A *three phase*. 375A of single phase power :D22:56
bart416Sounds like a damned fire hazard to me :P22:56
XgFOur downstairs, upstairs and kitcheneach have a 32A ring22:56
azonenbergbart416: I spread the load around22:56
azonenbergmy server farm is plugged into two or three plates22:56
azonenbergpulling close to 20A in total22:56
azonenbergBut i dont think there is anything stopping you from pulling 15 < x < 20 without blowing22:57
azonenbergfrom one outlet22:57
berndjafaik breakers' rating have 33% slop22:57
berndjso if it says 20A, it's allowed to trip only at up to 26A22:58
berndjerr, that's weirdly phrased, hope you guys can parse that22:58
XgF33% rating slop, plus something like +20% for 1 hour or less, on a logarithmic increasing scale (+10% for 2 hours and so on)22:58
berndjand momentary draws way in excess are no problem; 5x overcurrent for even the fastest breakers22:59
berndji'm still trying to find info on whether "curve 1", "curve 2" etc. are actual standards or just loose manufacturer consensi23:00
bart416Our 380V in the house has 38A breakers23:00
bart416For outside I think it was somewhere around 60A23:01
bart416(outside including toolshed etc...)23:01
bart416Regular 230V has 16A breakers23:01
XgFI think the Student Union building I work in has a 2kA 3phase supply or something equally ridiculous23:01
berndjmy PSCC isn't even 2kA23:02
XgF(Yes, it has its own mini substation)23:02
berndjkettle+multimeter+calculator says it's only about 460A :(23:02
XgFBut we are talking about a building with something like 9 eateries in it, so it does use a lot of power for cookers and such :p23:03
berndjthere's probably something wrong with the supply, i can't believe that the PSCC should be that low23:03
bart416XgF, you should see the distribution boxes in some machine shops23:03
bart416It's nuts23:03
azonenbergbart416: My school has at least two major transformer substations23:04
bart416the manual circuit breakers are just big copper bars with a long handle cause they're certain they'll arc xD23:04
azonenbergBut the union doesnt have one ofi ts own23:04
bart416azonenberg, I know of 323:04
azonenbergWell, one of these two is huge23:05
bart4162 for the mechanical and electrical engineering building23:05
bart416And 1 for the textile engineering building23:05
azonenberglike, multiple 40kV lines running in23:05
XgFTheres another one under the Octagon Center, I think similar current supply. My building (physics department) probably has one. Engineering buildings probably have one each23:05
azonenbergto a few dozen transformers23:05
XgFBeing as we are in the middle of a city, they're all underground23:05
azonenbergThese two are aboveground23:05
bart416Lab I worked in a few years ago was even more insane23:05
azonenbergThere is at least one more underground in the engineering building basement23:06
bart416But yeah, that was to feed that damned synchrotron >_>23:06
bart416The entire basement was filled with equipment for power management23:06
bart416If I would have stolen one of those transformers in some way I would be rich simply cause of the scrap iron I think23:07
bart416Let alone the copper >_>23:07
XgFbart416: You'd probably lose it all again to oil disposal23:07
bart416You can sell the oil as well XgF23:07
azonenbergXgF: If you're stealing equipment you probably dont care about the environment23:07
bart416That too23:08
XgFazonenberg: depends on how sure you are that the transformer isn't full of something potentially nasty to you :p23:08
bart416XgF,EU regulations won't allow that :P23:09
bart416it's always some sort of synthetic oil that just smells bad23:09
azonenbergXgF: Again, If you're pulling gear out of a live circuit23:09
XgFbart416: Depends on the xformer's age23:09
bart416Except in older transformers23:09
azonenbergI dont think you're that too concerned23:09
bart416That drains into the skin actually23:09
bart416but is non toxic23:09
bart416Just wear gloves23:10
XgFazonenberg: I might know how to kill power to the transformer. I might not know whether it contains something like PCBs23:10
azonenbergYou'll find out in 20 years? :P23:10
XgFWe have enough cupboards sealed off with asbestos stickers for me to worry about :p23:11
bart416azonenberg, very few transformers use toxic oil23:11
XgFbart416: Depends upon age, of course. Pre ~1980...23:12
bart416And honnestly in this case I'd be more worried about the device the transformer in question is powering than the transformer itself, heh23:12
berndjhttp://www.bpj-code.co.za/images/ht-fuse.jpeg  <-- in case a nail can't handle enough current23:13
bart416Who can download the full 400 mb of this file: http://fileserve.com/file/uevBtbr23:16
bart416Most I've been able to get is 120 mb23:16
berndjwhat, you want to steal a cyclotron too now in addition to the transformer?23:16
bart416Why not :P23:17
bart416You'll have to break open the damned building anyway to steal the transformer23:17
bart416You can as well steal a particle accelerator while you're at it23:17
bart416Even if it's a small one23:17
smedingberndj: is that an x100e? :p23:17
smedingbehind the fuse, i mean23:18
berndjbehind the fuse is the laptop i'm ircing on right now23:18
berndjit's a lenovo something or other23:18
smedingit looks like an x100e, or at least a recent smaller lenovo laptop23:18
berndjsomething something 560 springs to mind23:19
smedingi have an x100e - i love the damn thing to death23:19
berndjany ballpark guess for how much current my fuse can take?23:21
berndjthe printed rating, if there ever was one, has faded into nothingness23:22
bart416test it? :P23:26
berndjsend PSU pls23:27
berndjfrom the size alone i have to guess at least a few hundred amp23:27
azonenbergvery interesting23:31
azonenbergi may have to try this23:31
azonenbergi need something to embed samples in for cross sectioning23:32
azonenbergfirst, for optical microscopy23:33
bart416You should just use duct tape23:38
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