#homecmos IRC log for Thursday, 2011-08-04

bart416k, wtf04:26
bart416according to both satellites and ground based radars I should be in the middle of a severe thunderstorm at this point04:26
azonenbergBut you arent?04:26
bart416Slightly clouded04:27
bart416rather sunny for 6:27 in the morning I'd say04:27
bart416Also, vidicon arrived!04:28
bart416And no, not going to make it into an stm :P04:31
azonenbergaww, why not?04:34
bart416Cause it's expensive, still in original factory box, with test certificate and datasheet04:35
bart416If it were to be a "broken" one (generally the screen anyway) I'd do it04:37
azonenbergi see04:40
azonenbergspeaking of which... my new toy has been ordered :)04:40
azonenberg http://www.testextra.com/rigol/pages/rigol_ds1102d_mixed_signal_digital_oscilloscope.htm :)04:40
azonenbergships from the manufacturer tomorrow or friday and arrives early next week04:44
azonenbergThen i get to play with my FPGA board04:44
azonenbergin case you're wondering why my fab stuff isnt going muich this week (besides being busy with work) the guy who runs the SEM lab on campus is on vacation04:44
azonenbergand i need his help/approval to run my next experiment04:44
azonenberga) cross section one of my dies and measure layer thickness04:44
azonenbergb) see if the evaporator is capable of depositing Ni or Cr04:45
azonenbergc) if so, deposit one of them on a <110> sample and see how they work as hardmask04:45
azonenbergif my theory is correct i'll be able to use either of the two as a KOH hardmask with no underlying oxide layer04:45
azonenbergi'm thinking NiCr 80:20 since i have some 30-gauge of that in stock04:46
bart416azonenberg, http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/imag0437gm.jpg/04:49
bart416Cr deposition is fairly common I figure04:50
bart416If it doesn't work with a vacuum evaporator you might need to do chemical though04:50
bart416Ni is often done with electroless plating04:50
azonenbergAnd the issue with Cr is that it alloys with the tungsten filament and forms a low-melting-point eutectic04:50
azonenbergI need to inquire if there is any problem with doing NiCr deposition from an Al2O3 coated filament04:51
bart416You might have to use another filament04:51
azonenbergwhich i'd purchase and supply04:51
azonenbergalumina coated tungsten04:51
azonenberg$30 a pop vs $304:51
azonenbergbut for one experiment i can afford it04:51
azonenbergthey're also theoretically reusable for a couple of depositions04:51
azonenbergcompare part 72-1 ($20.45 for a ten pack)04:56
azonenbergto 84-21 ($42.50 each)04:56
bart416Dogs instead of horses04:56
bart416Jockeys have been replaced with small monkeys04:56
azonenbergwrong channel?04:56
bart416Admit, it's awesome in every single way04:59
bart416Also isn't the cost due to the ceramic basket?05:02
bart416I mean, it only seems logical that that is the reason05:02
bart416Except for making the basket yourself I doubt you can do much cheaper05:04
azonenbergIf its possible for a semi-sane price i plan to buy commercial once05:08
azonenbergAnd only then try and homebrew05:08
azonenbergsame thing for the evaporator05:08
azonenbergIt takes variables out of the equation05:08
azonenbergcompared to say, photomask fab05:08
azonenbergwhich has to be homebrewed due to cost05:08
bart416also, how good is your russian?05:35
azonenbergMy russian? Zero05:51
azonenbergbut i have a relative who does german/russian (and i think he's learning swedish) technical translation to english professionally ;)05:52
azonenberghe's busy rigth now so i dont think he'll be able to look at it though :(05:53
bart416There we go11:24
bart416another 75 euro in the pocket11:24
bart416EAT THAT CADENCE, lol13:00
bart416OrCADs autorouter said it was impossible13:00
bart416I just did it13:00
lekernelwhat would be great is if some open source router did it :-)13:56
azonenbergbart416: how many DRC errors? :P14:43
bart41640 or so I think15:05
bart416The thing being that its actually making mistakes15:05
bart416It assumes a resistor is a path as well15:05
bart416And that it should be spaced from other paths15:05
bart416Probably some sort of weird setting15:06
azonenbergSo re the fpga board i'm working on... gonna switch the decoupling caps from 0603 to 040215:06
bart416You're nuts!15:06
bart4160402 = student torturers15:07
azonenbergYou wnat to see torture parts? :P15:07
bart416I have one that'll beat your fpgas so meh :P15:07
bart416Phonebook sized datasheet, yay!15:07
azonenberghow about a 5-ball CSP15:08
azonenberg520 x 570 microns with one in the center15:08
azonenberg200 micron balls15:08
bart416That's doable :P15:08
azonenbergwell yeah, i did it15:08
azonenbergdoesnt mean it was easy :p15:08
azonenbergi actually had DRC errors on the board to the point the pads shorted with one another lol15:09
azonenbergthis was my slasher flick fix :P15:09
azonenbergthis is 100x magnification http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/pictures/2011/August/8-1-2011%20-%20CSP/S7301579.JPG15:09
azonenbergfor scale the copper layer is 30um high and the traces are 150 wide15:09
azonenbergwhich means i was making 50-75 micron cuts by hand with a scalpel lol15:10
azonenbergunder 30x magnification15:10
azonenbergMy general rule - when the thickness of your traces is a significant fraction (20% or more) of your width15:11
bart416Ever had to solder under a microscope?15:11
azonenbergyou're doing small scale stuff :P15:11
azonenbergRework on an 0.5mm TQFP15:11
bart4160.5mm you can still do with a headband loupe15:11
azonenbergi can solder them w/o mag but trying to tell if you've got the last bit of solder out between the pins is hard15:11
azonenbergand since i *have* a stereo microscope i use it sometimes even when not necessary15:12
azonenbergmy headband magnifier i havent used since getting the scope15:12
bart416headband magnifier is more comfortable15:12
azonenbergi cant stand 'em, eyestrain up the wazoo15:12
azonenbergalso - http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/pictures/2011/August/8-1-2011%20-%20CSP/S7301580.JPG15:12
azonenbergcheck that out lol15:12
bart416heh, depends on if you already wear glasses or not15:12
azonenbergdepth of field is less than the thickness of metal  lol15:12
bart416that's why you use a headband loupe :P15:14
bart416Just get a good one15:14
bart416I can't stand the ones at college so bought my own15:14
bart416additionally mine has a leather strap, not a plastic one like theirs15:14
azonenbergmine is leather15:15
azonenbergor at least looks leathery15:15
azonenbergprob synthetic15:15
bart416+ several lenses15:16
azonenbergmine has all plastic optics :P15:16
azonenbergone primary, flip down over both eyes, and then a single flip down over the left eye over that15:16
bart416Mine is CR 39 just like my regular glasses15:16
azonenbergi see15:17
azonenbergalso - http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/pictures/2011/August/8-1-2011%20-%20CSP/S7301584.JPG15:17
azonenbergthe CSP breakout cooking in my toaster oven / IR reflow oven lol15:17
azonenbergAnd yes that "cookie sheet" is a 4-inch wafer15:17
azonenbergi have plenty of extra cheap ones and they're pretty inert, so...15:18
bart416I use a regular oven tray15:19
azonenbergfinished bga :)15:21
bart416You're nuts and need another hobby :P15:26
bart416Ever considered driving cars off a cliff and jumping out with a parachute?15:29
bart416uhm other ideas?15:46
bart416Did you ever build rockets?15:46
azonenbergTiny little ones yeah15:46
azonenbergnothing big, like orbital grade15:46
azonenbergthough thats on the world domination TODO list15:46
bart416What altitude have you achieved?15:48
bart416Or did you go for distance?15:48
azonenbergaltitude, and only like 500ft15:49
azonenbergi was like 12 at the time15:49
azonenbergAnd used prebuilt motors15:49
bart416aaaaaw :(15:49
bart416Wanna borrow my LOX canister? :P15:49
bart416And own made graphite nozzles?15:49
azonenbergactually the compressed gases i want most now are N2 and Ar15:49
bart416well not really home but DIY15:49
bart416N2 is easy enough15:49
azonenbergfor general purpose drying and sputtering respectively15:50
bart416Ar is more problematic15:50
azonenbergdry dust-free N2 no less15:50
azonenbergthe Ar also needs to be high grade15:50
azonenbergprob from a welding supplier15:50
bart416Tried diving stores?15:50
azonenbergi havent looked yet15:50
bart416Divers sometimes also need pure nitrogen15:50
azonenbergother stuff is higher priority15:50
bart416Most places that compress LOX also sell high grade N215:51
azonenbergi see15:51
bart416It's easier to get liquid nitrogen than LOX15:52
azonenbergBut i'd want gaseous at first15:52
azonenbergLN2 is on the wish list for longer term15:52
azonenbergwhen i actually have gear that can use it15:53
bart416You could get dry N2 from LN2 though15:53
azonenbergBut LN2 has a comparatively short shelf life15:53
azonenbergcompressed N2 can be stored for a long time afaik15:53
bart416I've never had to store it long, rockets you know :P15:53
azonenbergsince its room temp and high pressure15:53
azonenbergand i was planning to set up some N2 guns i could use around the lab15:54
azonenbergfor drying stuff etc15:54
azonenbergSo it'd be a little bit here and there over a really long time15:54
azonenbergmonths to years15:54
azonenbergi'd probably go for a diving sized cylinder (rather than the giant 5-foot ones)15:54
azonenbergand i'td last me a long time15:54
bart416Don't you also need oxygen to make good quality oxide layers?15:55
azonenbergI was actually planning to do oxidation in air15:55
bart416compressed oxygen is fairly common15:55
bart416even if it's not highest purity15:55
azonenbergAgain, the question is not what i can get15:55
azonenbergits what i need15:56
bart416It's not that expensive15:56
bart416Just saying, you could get it :P15:56
azonenbergits not just cost, its the space in my lab, safety issues, etc15:56
bart416heh, I'd be more worried about the compressed nitrogen than oxygen15:57
azonenbergI wouldnt have a lot of it though15:57
azonenberglike maybe a 50ft^3 bottle15:57
bart416how much liter is that?15:57
azonenbergsame with the Ar15:57
azonenbergexact amount is irrelevant15:57
azonenbergpoint is, we're talking lecture bottle sized15:57
azonenbergmaybe about the size of a medical O2 canister15:58
bart416so small reserve diving bottle size?15:58
bart416small, medium or large medical O2 canister?15:58
azonenbergmedium ish?15:58
azonenbergiow, a size such that the risk of suffocation or overpressure damage is minimal15:58
bart416just be sure you can ventilate the area well15:58
azonenbergeven in case of an uncontrolled release15:58
azonenbergAnd thats one of the reasons i havent actually gotten it yet15:58
azonenbergi havent done a full survey of the area yet to decide if its possible to do so safely15:59
bart416We use those medium size bottles with the red cross on events15:59
bart416They put an emergency over pressure release on them to outside the ambulance15:59
azonenbergI wont be using anything toxic, so there is no concern about trace leakage15:59
bart416Yeah, but just safety16:00
azonenbergThey'd obviously be chained down16:00
bart416Heh, chains don't help if these things launch themselves16:00
Action: azonenberg would rather not have flying cylinders going torpedo on him16:00
azonenbergand of course they'd have overpressure releases16:00
bart416yeah, but make sure they go outside16:00
azonenbergyou mean to avoid blowing the windows etc?16:00
bart416to avoid venting it in your own space16:01
azonenbergDepends on what the gas is16:01
azonenbergO2 i wouldnt mind venting a small amount but inert stuff i'd be more cautious about16:01
azonenbergDepends also on the overall volu\me of the tank16:01
bart416I'd be more worried about the N216:01
azonenbergif its 0.5% of the room's volume, a few cubic feet, it doesnt matter much16:01
azonenbergif its a quarter, it matters a lot16:01
bart416We get O2 leaks all the time in our ambulance16:01
bart416Just makes you a little light headed16:01
azonenbergthe Ar would probably be only say a 10 ft^3 bottle16:02
azonenbergsince i'd be using it at low pressure for sputtering16:02
azonenbergso say a 20 x 10 ft^2 room is 200ft^2, times 10 foot ceilings (rough numbers, havent measured) is 2,000 ft^316:02
bart416But they still bothered to make the safety release go outside16:02
azonenbergsay 20ft^3 for the Ar16:02
bart416It's 1m extra of tubing16:03
azonenbergSo 1%16:03
azonenbergBut yeah, if i set it up i'd probably do that anyway16:03
azonenbergthere are people on campus who know all of the codes16:03
azonenbergi'm sure i could ask one16:03
bart416Also while I'm at it, volunteer for your local red cross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!16:03
bart416btw azonenberg screen of a vidicon: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OZz9JDSDhDk/Tjq_VNdzd4I/AAAAAAAAAGc/B33vKOdozCk/s800/IMAG0468.jpg16:15
bart416This looks about as clean as a wafer o_O16:15
azonenbergwhats the dartk area in the middle?16:16
bart416That's the window16:16
bart416hard to really name it16:16
azonenbergno, i mean there's a rectangular area16:16
azonenbergis that an edit to the photo or something?16:16
azonenbergas well as what looks like some text on the right side16:17
bart416ah, you're seeing the reflection of my phone16:17
azonenbergoh lol16:18
bart416The text you're seeing is htc :P16:18
azonenbergMakes sense now lol16:18
azonenbergand yeah, thats shiny lol16:18
bart416But the material is a highsly sensitive photoconductor16:18
azonenbergwhat are you gonna use it for?16:18
bart416I'm going to build a B/W camera16:18
bart416And later I might use it as detector in a SEM16:19
bart416This thing is horribly sensitive to radiation heh16:19
bart416And already works by electronics16:19
azonenbergi see16:19
bart416lack of sleep the past few weeks is doing something to me16:20
azonenbergIts overkill thouhg, for an ET detector you dont need pixels16:20
azonenbergjust a block of phosphor16:20
azonenbergand a photomultiplier16:20
bart416yeah, but you must remember, this thing in theory has infinite horizontal resolution :P16:20
azonenbergi'm saying, using it as an SE detector is a waste16:21
azonenbergsince you dont need position16:21
azonenbergyou get position by knowing where the beam is pointed16:21
bart416Maybe an alternative design16:21
bart416Using multiple beams16:22
azonenbergall you need to know is how strong the SE emission is16:22
azonenbergand hmm, maybe...16:22
bart416That could be interesting16:22
bart416Higher speed and power16:22
azonenbergthat means multiple guns though16:22
bart416Maybe you could then use one beam for electron cutting and a few others to image what you're doing at the same time16:23
azonenbergits enough of a PITA to align and stigmate one16:23
bart416I need more to plead insanity if they ever figure out what you're doing16:23
bart416They'll consider me sane due to you!16:24
azonenberghey, i'm not the one building a nuclear reactor in his kitchen16:25
azonenbergalso, my lab is well organized and almost spotless16:25
azonenbergthat nutjob had no sense of lab hygiene16:26
bart416That nutjob was an idiot16:26
bart416he should be happy they caught him16:26
azonenberghis *neighbors* should be :P16:26
bart416It's a small wonder he doesn't have radiation sickness yet16:26
azonenbergyou sure he doesnt? :p16:28
bart416I hope for him not16:34
bart416lol, a friend just called16:34
bart416Microwave accident16:35
azonenbergas in?16:35
bart416You know that quick microwave rice16:35
bart41645 seconds...16:35
bart416The packs often say "put it in the microwave 0:45"16:35
bart416Well, she did16:35
azonenberg45 minuts16:35
bart41645 minutes16:35
azonenbergthe result?16:35
bart416She didn't want to tell16:36
bart416I'll poke for the result later16:36
bart416She's lucky I always make food for one person extra :|16:36
azonenbergmolten plastic all over the inside of the microwave, smoke filling the room?16:36
bart416I figure16:36
bart416Wouldn't be the first time that has happened with her16:36
bart416Nice person, just sort of uhm, clumsy16:36
bart416Does mean I have to clean up this mess a bit16:37
bart416good uhm noon over there I guess?16:37
azonenbergalmost 1300, but yeah16:37
azonenbergwhat time is it over by you again?16:38
bart416There we go16:41
bart416and food in the oven16:41
bart416that went faster than expected o_O16:41
azonenbergAlso - http://i.imgur.com/ho9LT.png16:41
azonenbergFront view of one of my other side projects16:42
azonenberglook familiar?16:42
azonenbergI still have a bit more CAD to do and then a board to design / firmware to write16:42
bart416Portal? :P16:42
bart416Evil :P16:42
azonenbergLife sided replica16:42
azonenbergarmed with twin rubber band guns16:42
bart416You using inventor studio for animation?16:42
azonenbergwebcam based target tracking in rev 1 (PC app), rev 2 will use an NTSC camera, ADC, and FPGA16:43
azonenbergno animation, just CAD16:43
azonenberggonna prob be CNCing some of the parts16:43
azonenbergthere's a con on campus some time in the early spring16:44
azonenbergi'm thinking of bringing it there and setting it up to take potshots at the furries :P16:44
azonenbergAs well as to get reactions from generic geeks on it16:44
bart416bah, you have furries on campus?16:47
bart416Also, I have an idea to beat your insanity16:50
bart416Going to build a time machine16:51
bart416AND bring Tesla to the modern age16:51
bart416And give him unlimited resources to build destructive weapons16:51
azonenbergWell, there's at least one furry among the student body16:52
azonenbergi used to see him in the dining hall most days around lunchtime16:52
azonenbergyou could tell because his laptop had little furry ears sticking off the corners of the screen16:52
azonenbergand the power cord was wrapped in fur so it looked like a tail16:52
bart416oh gosh :|16:52
bart416My hate for furries increased significantly when I saw two of them "yiffing" in public in a train station16:53
azonenbergAnd while the con is a general "everything geeky" con, furries are among the many attendies16:53
bart416+ the fact that they're major headaches on irc for admins16:53
azonenbergonly maybe 1% though16:53
bart416Make an automatic fur detector16:54
bart416And shoot at their costumes with H20216:54
azonenbergi dont want to oxidize them...16:54
azonenbergBut a fur detector would be an interesting vision problem lol16:55
bart416nah, if it's 3% it'll only bleach their clothing16:55
azonenbergAnd the guy i'm talking about doesnt have a full fursuit16:55
azonenbergI did almost trip over his tail once though16:55
azonenbergwas heading down to the electronics club the weekend of the con a year or two ago16:56
bart416But you have nice conventions like that16:56
bart416We don't :(16:56
bart416I should ask to organize one16:57
bart416What sorts of stuff do you have at that convention?16:58
azonenbergNo idea, never actually attended16:58
azonenbergThis is the first project i've worked on i thought would be appropriate16:58
bart416Bah, that's just a weaboo convention17:01
azonenbergLike i said, i've never actually attended17:01
azonenbergBut based on photos i've seen i think this would go over well lol17:01
bart416Meh, not worth organizing a weaboo convention though :P17:02
bart4161) "OMG ASIAN" is annoying17:02
bart4162) see 117:02
bart4163) They're cowards generally17:03
bart4164) Electronics and funny projects > Anime17:03
azonenbergfrom what i understand the percentage of anime stuff there is actually not that high17:03
azonenbergfrom the name you can tell that they try to cater to any and all geeky interests17:03
azonenbergranging from anime to scifi to fur to RPGs17:03
bart416The issue is that you might attract the makerfair and arduino idiots with that though!17:06
azonenbergLol, yes there are a lot of arduino fans around campus17:06
Action: azonenberg rages17:06
azonenbergA few of the makerfaire projects are actually good17:07
azonenbergi saw a nice tesla coil vid17:07
bart416but most are just copy and paste of the internet17:07
azonenberglol yeah17:08
XgFNothing wrong with the Arduino for its intended purpose. Just a shame its become used for so much more17:08
bart416Arduino makes people lazy and stupid17:08
bart416Where are the days of messing on a breadboard with a pile of wires, passives and some transistors to program an 8051 microcontroller?17:08
azonenberghttp://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/pictures/2011/July/7-26-2011%20-%20lab/S7301572.JPG << my idea of a breadboard17:09
azonenbergrunning both JTAG and USB onto it :P17:09
azonenbergand equipped with a 32-bit MCU and a CPLD lol17:09
azonenbergAnd all of the breakouts are full custom17:10
bart416My breadboard is still half fried from an xray transformer :D17:10
bart416And another one has a huce motorolla cpu on it17:10
azonenberghasnt anyone ever told you breadboards arent good for HV or sensitive analog? :P17:10
azonenbergwaaay too much capacitive coupling between adjacent rails17:10
azonenbergthe rpi e-club has some 68ks17:10
azonenbergthey're like 60 pin DIP17:11
bart416Hey, it wasn't my fault that the mosfet failed!17:11
azonenbergCDIP i think17:11
bart416Heh, I pulled one of those out of an old sharp laser printer :D17:11
bart416And enough 7400 series logic for the rest of my life >_>17:12
bart416And she's late >_>17:13
bart416Sort of dissapointed17:35
bart416At least expected her to stick around for a while17:35
azonenbergshe just ate and left?17:36
bart416Why do I still bother to help her?17:40
bart416Except the fact that I might sort of like her17:40
bart416Oh yeah, worst side bonus17:42
bart416Her boyfriend picked her up17:42
bart416So it's not really ammusing17:42
bart416Didn't know that part yet17:42
azonenbergI see :p17:42
bart416I don't really think it's still funny at this point actually but yeah17:42
azonenbergno, i'm just amused in general at the antics of geeks attempting to attract the attention of female H. Sapiens17:44
azonenbergAnd at the numerous ways they tend to fail17:44
azonenbergEspecially if compltely unpredictable17:45
bart416Keep in mind her probably asshole boyfriend (if he's anything like the previous ones) couldn't even bother to make her anything to eat17:45
bart416The past 5 years I've taken better care of her than her own damn family at times...17:45
bart416And she knows I like her17:46
bart416So yeah, just going to give up17:46
bart416This isn't worth it17:46
azonenbergThe last girl i had over my lab, well...17:46
azonenbergshe was an RPG fanatic17:46
azonenbergBetween that and her not being a supergeek like me (i.e .actually needing to study) we saw each other IRL twice over the course of a semester lol17:47
azonenbergshe was cute but we never ended up actually dating17:48
azonenbergAnd that wont happen any time in the near future considering my school ended up being too expensive and she transferred out :P17:48
azonenbergSo yeah, locating females of the right type at engineering schools isnt easy17:51
bart416Strictly speaking, most are ugly17:53
bart416so that limits the acceptable options17:53
bart416And why are it always the fat ugly ones that wear skirts/shorts/expose flesh17:54
azonenbergwell the bigger problem is, most people (regardless of gender) are boring17:54
azonenbergeven at engineering schools, where there's a higher percentage of nerds17:54
azonenbergit's maybe 20% vs 2%17:54
bart416I don't find that too problematic if I don't have to stay with people too long17:58
azonenbergidk, i cant really stand hanging out with boring people17:59
azonenbergit's... boring17:59
bart416They probably say the same about you17:59
bart416You just sort of need a trigger to switch to casual conversation with a common subject18:00
azonenbergthats the point - "common subject"18:00
azonenbergwith me and 95% of people there isnt one lol18:00
bart416That you can fix you know :P18:01
azonenbergyou mean studying popular culture?18:01
bart416Don't you watch some sports18:01
azonenbergNo thanks, i prefer culture to stay in my petri dishes where it belongs :P18:01
bart416Or do some sports?18:01
azonenbergand nope18:01
bart416Watch some movies?18:01
bart416Read (comic) books?18:01
bart416Listen to music18:01
azonenbergmy exercise of choice is out in the mountains, 10+ miles from the nearest town, and with a 30 pound pack on my back18:01
bart416Go to concert or events18:02
azonenbergand those other subjects are really pretty boring to someone like me18:02
bart416You'd be amazed how many people are willing to talk about such things :P18:02
azonenbergmy brain cant stand downtime18:02
bart416How do you do it?18:02
azonenbergi was on a family vacation in june after graduating18:02
azonenbergafter the first day or two i pulled out my laptop and started writing a paper18:02
azonenbergthe relaxation was driving me nuts18:02
bart416You need some time off, or you have a burnout eventually18:03
azonenbergyou misunderstand lol18:03
azonenbergtime off from coding at work18:03
azonenbergis chip fab at home18:03
azonenbergwhen i get tired of that i do FPGA stuff18:03
azonenbergas long as i set Tq short enough and use a prioritized round robin scheduler...18:04
azonenbergi was homeschooled, remember... i grew up in relative social isolation (church and scouts, each once a week, were my only real contact with the outside world)18:04
bart416My time off: running, sailing, shooting bottles, watching movies, playing guitar or piano, cooking, going for a drink with some friends, ...18:04
azonenbergspent most of the day reading and studying because that's all there wasto do18:04
bart416I had neither of those18:05
azonenbergAnd now i'm so used to that lifestyle i cant handle anything else lol18:05
azonenbergmy mom forced me to play the piano (piano teacher) for many years18:05
bart416My only real extensive social contact was a single person18:05
azonenbergi quit the second i moved out18:05
bart416I hated playing piano at the time18:05
bart416Now I love it18:05
azonenbergI bet her $100 when i was around 12 that she was wrong18:05
azonenbergand i wouldn't love playing by my 18th birthday18:06
azonenbergi collected18:06
azonenbergand havent touched a piano since18:06
bart416You can feel the flow of the music, the subtle tones of the hammers hitting the snares, ...18:06
bart416Piano is such an excellent instrument18:06
azonenbergi like listening to it18:06
azonenbergBut i'd do anything to not be the guy sitting at it18:06
bart416Piano is one of the few instruments you can really play on feeling18:07
bart416Guitar you need to study18:07
bart416Piano you start out by studying but after a few years you can just play what you have in your head18:07
bart416That's why it's such a great instrument18:07
azonenbergWhen i quit i was able to play almost the entire third (? slow one, whichever that is) movement of the moonlight sonata from memory18:08
azonenbergi could do about the first half of it with my eyes shut before hitting a part with difficult fingering18:08
bart416Heh, I don't look at the keyboard anymore at all18:08
bart416For anything18:08
bart416Only at the start to position my hands18:08
azonenbergThat was one spot where i had to move my hand an octave or two over18:09
azonenbergcouldnt get it exact without looking18:09
azonenbergAnyway so point is, as a result of growing up like that18:09
bart416You know what's actually supprisingly hard, playing mozart's turkish march at full speed18:09
azonenbergi'm now so conditioned into spending all of my waking hours on scientific / academic subjects18:10
azonenbergthat i now do it by choice18:10
bart416I sort of became like that when my girlfriend left, it's fixing itself now though18:10
bart416You just need a reason to get out of the pattern18:10
bart416(Also I meant turkish march is hard to play for a young person with smaller hands eh)18:10
azonenbergthats the thing, i dont want to get out of it18:11
azonenbergit's made me who i am18:11
bart416Sometimes to meet a person you want to meet you have to get out of it though18:11
bart416That's the main reason to get out of your habbits18:11
azonenbergi'd rather take my time and find someone who can put up with me like this :P18:12
azonenbergi dont want to take the risk of getting distracted and losing my edge18:12
bart416Actually, in my case it improves my academic performance18:12
bart416To give you an idea, last year I had a sort of relationship with a girl that I shared several classes with18:13
bart416So yeah, during math18:13
bart416Solving differential equations18:13
bart416I actually managed to beat a professor >_>18:13
bart416Normally I'd take twice as long as him18:14
bart416Just her being there was enough to convince me to just go for it18:14
azonenbergGuess it depends on the situation then - but i usually find that my inherent motivation to get out there and be the best of the best is all it takes18:15
azonenberganything else just is a distraction18:15
bart416Not all distractions are bad18:16
bart416I didn't pay attention at all in classes I shared with her, yet I had excellent grades on every single one of them; and they weren't exactly easy18:16
bart416Simply being happy seemed to do the trick :S18:16
azonenbergi see... in my case, talking to this girl ended up giving me an alternative to working on HW for my least interesting class of the semester18:17
azonenbergWhich, as you can imagine, didnt bode well for my grade18:17
azonenbergforget what i got but it was my worst grade in my entire period as an undergrad18:17
azonenbergb- maybe?18:17
bart416b- is how much %?18:18
azonenbergC actually18:18
azonenbergand i dont know, the class was curved18:18
azonenbergbut it brought my 3.85 down to a 3.7618:18
azonenbergBy comparison first semester freshman year, when i was a hermit who spent most of his time in the dorm18:19
azonenbergi had a 3.9318:19
azonenbergone A- and all As otherwise18:19
bart416If they bothered to grade on curve I'd get A on everything as well >_>18:20
azonenbergIn any case, i got my degree so that's over with18:21
azonenbergBut now i have a phd to do18:21
berndjyou guys should apply the scientific method to girls!  bring your hacking skills to bear on the problem21:06
berndjbart416, did you get any info on diy multilayer boarding?21:08
azonenbergberndj: lol21:08
bart416berndj, no21:08
bart416When would I have done that21:08
bart416All I got was a name that I forgot21:08
azonenbergi *did* remember doing a chi-square analysis to determine whether me and a girl i was hanging out with were dating or not lol21:08
azonenbergthe result was - not enough data to confirm or deny a statistically significant correlation21:09
berndjdj delorie / www.delorie.com.  i think he does some sort of heat fusion of layers21:09
bart416berndj, applying engineering skills to social issues leads to bad situations21:09
berndjdepends how meta you go21:10
bart416his site doesn't seem to show much21:11
berndjbut i remember the pua guys taking the hypothesis/experiment/measure process quite seriously.  sometimes quite comically21:11
berndjyeah, mostly pics of what is, not much on the how21:11
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