#homecmos IRC log for Friday, 2011-06-24

azonenberg_labPlaying with making probe tips still01:27
azonenberg_labThey're all decently shapr but getting really fine points is tricky01:27
Action: azonenberg_lab needs to make a controller board01:27
azonenberg_labi can easily hit 2.5um tips, 1.5 is doable under good conditions01:29
azonenberg_labbut i want like 500nm01:29
B0101WTH??? Copyright claim???? For MY lab notes????01:32
azonenberg_labSomeone else is claiming your notes are infringing something?01:33
azonenberg_labWhere did you have them posted?01:34
B0101I only keep them in a Member accessible web site01:34
B0101Now its been taken down01:34
azonenberg_labwtf... file a counterclaim01:34
azonenberg_labDid they provide detail as to the exact offending material or just say "the whole site"01:35
B0101They told me the file name is: lab_paper_1.pdf01:35
B0101If I am not mistaken: THAT was notes that I taken from MY EXPERIMENT01:36
B0101I am told nothing else...01:36
B0101I am not even told who the claimant is!!!01:37
azonenberg_labIs this from your web host or what?01:37
B0101From my web host....01:37
azonenberg_labWho is US based i assume?01:37
B0101its an SG web host01:38
azonenberg_labwell if its a DMCA claim there is a specifically formatted response to a takedown request, saying you do not believe the content is infringing01:38
azonenberg_labWhich is risky if it IS, because you open yourself to a lawsuit - but if the claimant does not file a suit within a few weeks the content must be restored01:39
B0101azonenberg_lab: This isn't the first time....01:43
azonenbergB0101: What?01:43
azonenbergThey've done it before?01:43
B0101I created a encryption program 2 years ago... they took it down because of a copyright claim01:43
azonenbergBut they didnt tell you the claimant?01:44
azonenbergThats pretty messed up01:44
B0101They never01:44
azonenbergTime to find a new web host IMO01:44
azonenbergOne that will actually tell you who's making the claim and give you a fair fight01:44
azonenbergThey are obligated to take it down immediately on recieving the notice no matter what01:45
azonenbergBut they should give you the opportunity to make a counterclaim01:45
B0101I know... I have prepared the backup....01:45
B0101and I will move ASAP01:45
azonenbergDMCA claims have a history of being abused01:45
azonenbergi think ars technica or wired had their facebook page shut down after a DMCA claim01:46
azonenbergAnd it took them quite a while to get it back up01:46
B0101which sucks...01:46
azonenbergfb didnt even tell them what the offending content was or who had filed the claim01:46
B0101sucks even more01:46
B0101Singapore ISP's will do anything to prevent you from hosting a server at your home....01:47
azonenbergeven in the USA there are problems with that01:48
azonenbergBut usually they dont block odd high ports01:48
azonenbergJust well known ones01:48
azonenbergStill, its annoying enough that I plan to move my main server to an offsite datacenter soon01:48
B0101My ISP made sure that all their clients share the ISP's gateway server's External IP01:49
azonenbergThey're using NAT?01:49
azonenbergWhich to me probably means they're out of ip addresses01:49
azonenbergand are too lazy to deploy v601:49
B0101and there are only 3 ISP's here in singapore01:50
azonenbergAnd they all collaborate to ensure insanely high prices etc?01:50
B0101this is my second ISP...01:50
B0101And I am tired with their lies...01:51
B0101Service: Not good, Prices: REALLY HIGH!!!01:51
azonenberglol, sounds typical of most companies in telecom these days01:52
B0101My ISP had a lot of downtimes...01:52
B0101and they blamed it on my router.... my server... my whatever01:52
azonenbergMy home isp has trouble too, which is why i am moving my servers offsite01:52
azonenbergTo a proper datacenter on a 100mbit pipe01:52
azonenbergWith i think four or five nines uptime guaranteed01:53
B0101my ISP told me that i will have a 1 Gigabyte per second speed01:53
B0101Not kiddinf01:53
azonenbergI've been on *real* gigabit pipes01:53
azonenbergThey're nice01:53
B0101but my speed is about 1MBPS01:54
azonenbergFastest speedtest i ever hit was 250 Mbps down and 150 up01:54
azonenbergAnd i think the test server was the bottleneck01:54
B0101My speed test: download speed = 6.50 down01:54
azonenbergThis is on campus in a lab thoguh01:54
azonenbergAt home i get horrible speeds01:54
B0101Now I am watching a show similar to Good morning America01:57
B0101Ah 2012 B.S01:59
B0101they don't need to show it on TV01:59
B0101hows your mask experiment by the way??/02:02
azonenbergB0101: Not doing mask stuff today02:22
azonenbergProbe fab02:22
azonenbergAnd right now i'm actually battling one of my servers which doesnt seem to want to talk to me over the network02:23
azonenbergSeems to be booting, i hear the POST beep02:23
azonenbergand am not in the mood to haul one of my monitors across the house to debug it02:23
azonenberg_labhi Harold_parker02:28
Harold_parkersup  azonenberg_lab02:28
Harold_parkerhow goes mate?02:28
azonenberg_labAs of now? Getting annoyed with one of my servers02:28
azonenberg_labits having trouble booting for reasons unknown and i'm not in the mood to drag out a monitor to debug02:29
azonenberg_labI wish02:30
azonenberg_labif it actually had an external port...02:30
Harold_parkeraahhh damn :(02:31
azonenberg_labJust dragged my roommate's one out, he left his door open :P02:31
azonenberg_labNow i need to find power02:31
azonenberg_labhey, its fair... he's gone for the weekend and wont miss it02:32
azonenberg_laband he uses my tools all the time :P02:32
Harold_parkeri'm sure he'd be honoured02:33
azonenberg_labwow, this thing is still on ubuntu 9.0402:34
azonenberg_labi havent used it in so long lol02:34
azonenberg_labits been unplugged for the last few months since i pulled the power supply to test another box02:34
azonenberg_labAnd never bothered to put it back in02:34
azonenberg_labThe thing uses soooo much electricity i dont use it unless i need the horsepower lol02:35
Harold_parkerhaha yeah02:35
Harold_parkerand they'rre so damn noisy too!02:35
azonenberg_labActually, this one is quite quiet02:35
azonenberg_labthe rest of my rack is several times louder02:35
azonenberg_labThe problem with this one is it costs $200ish a month to keep running :P02:36
azonenberg_lab2x 1kW power supplies will do that to you02:37
Harold_parkeryeh i've seriously wondered at the possibility of pulling the case open02:37
Harold_parkerand ditching the high power psus02:37
Harold_parkerif its kept cool enough maybe all those fans are a waste of power?02:37
azonenberg_labWIth this box? Not a chance02:38
Harold_parkerahh damn02:38
Harold_parkerwhats in it?02:38
azonenberg_labquad core amd (sucky, i want a new mobo with an i7)02:38
azonenberg_lab16gb ddr202:38
azonenberg_laband four tesla c106002:38
azonenberg_labIts in a tower case since we couldnt find a rack case that could hold four double-width gpus :P02:39
Harold_parkerhow are those tesla's treating you?02:39
azonenberg_labI want C2xxx02:40
Harold_parkerare they what sucks all the juice?02:40
azonenberg_labthe 1xxx are nice but they dont have any L1 cache02:40
azonenberg_labI have a box in my office thats a 4U02:40
azonenberg_labi7, 12gb ddr302:40
azonenberg_laband 2x gtx 48002:40
azonenberg_labRight now its operating at reduced capacity due to a dying PSU (lost a 12V rail or two) but the spare arrives tomorrow02:40
azonenberg_labthen i have another 4U job at home on the rack that's only 6GB ram, i7, and a geforce 9500 (mostly a file server)02:41
azonenberg_laband two more 2U compute nodes, each with a geforce 9800, core2quad, 8gb ddr202:41
azonenberg_labNot a bad cluster for a home rack02:41
Harold_parkerfuckin nice man02:42
azonenberg_labin fact, when the CS department had an outage recently i offered my advisor's research group accounts on the rack lol02:42
Harold_parkerwhat have you been throwing at it?02:42
azonenberg_labTwo or three of the guys were running simulations on it for a while02:42
Harold_parkerwere they pleased?02:42
azonenberg_labMy boxes had good uptime02:42
azonenberg_labso yeah :P02:42
Harold_parkerhaha noice02:43
Harold_parkerwhat kind of sims were they running02:43
azonenberg_labThey actually had moved from the department machines to a single server i admin for my advisor earlier02:43
azonenberg_labbecause the dept boxes were on a flaky raid file server02:43
azonenberg_labThat box was then knocked out by a PSU failure02:43
azonenberg_labSo while we waited for the spare to arrive i let them use my rack02:43
Harold_parkerhah nice02:43
azonenberg_labAnd i'm not sure, i'm not in that research group (data mining)02:44
azonenberg_labthe two groups i'm involved in are graphics (summer research assistantship) and security (which i'm doing my thesis work in)02:44
Harold_parkeroooh cool02:44
Harold_parkernice mate :D02:44
Harold_parkerwhats the thesis topic?02:44
azonenberg_labPersonally, i got the cluster for an outside consulting job i was doing last year (molecular dynamics modeling)02:44
Harold_parkerwafer RE ?? >:D >:D >:D02:44
azonenberg_labThe guy just got back to me and said he needed more sims done which is why i'm firing up this compute node, which had been gathering dust02:45
azonenberg_labI normally keep the file server and one of the 2U jobs up all the time and WoL the others if i need more computing power02:45
Harold_parkerwill they help with the cots?02:45
Harold_parkeraye nice02:45
azonenberg_laband my thesis topic is still a little up in the air as i only entered the phd program three weeks ago :P02:46
azonenberg_labBut it will be something related to cpu-level security02:46
azonenberg_labprobably at the archiecture level with prototyping and testing of threat models on FPGAs02:46
azonenberg_labRight now RE is purely a hobby02:46
azonenberg_labthough in a few years, with a lot of hobby-level RE under my belt plus a dissertation on embedded security, you never know lol02:47
azonenberg_labOn the topic of RE - http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-22/S7300913.JPG02:48
azonenberg_labhere it is at 40x http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-22/S7300914.JPG02:48
azonenberg_labAnd 400x http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-22/S7300916.JPG02:48
azonenberg_labtip curvature radius is around 1.5 microns i estimate02:48
Harold_parkernice man :D02:50
Harold_parkervery very nic e:D02:50
Harold_parkerholy fuck02:50
Harold_parkerthat is TIGHt02:50
Harold_parkerjesus fuck02:50
Harold_parkerpro :D02:50
Harold_parkerdid you order that?02:50
azonenberg_labHeck no02:50
azonenberg_labelectrochemical etching of 406um tungsten wire in 20% KOH at 3VDC02:51
azonenberg_labI need to refine the process, the next few i did werent quite as sharp (maybe 2-3um radius)02:51
Harold_parkerthis is super pro!02:51
azonenberg_labGonna pop some under the SEM soon to see how they look up close02:51
azonenberg_laband get more accurate measurements02:51
Harold_parkerhow did you refine the tip to that sharp point :O02:52
azonenberg_labWoo, the tesla box is now online (just wanted to fsck after a long time offline)02:52
azonenberg_labWelcome to GLaDOS, motivating coders with premium quality cake since 1986.02:52
azonenberg_labThis system is equipped with 4x nVidia Tesla C1060, a 3.0 GHz quad-core AMD02:52
azonenberg_labprocessor (Phenom II x4 940) and 16GB ram.02:52
azonenberg_lab  3.73 teraflops peak performance (single-precision).02:52
Harold_parkernoice :)02:52
azonenberg_labroot@glados:~# lspci | grep Tesla | wc -l02:52
azonenberg_labAnd they're all there, i've had issues with loose cards causing some of them to not show up02:53
Harold_parker<-- jelly02:53
Harold_parkeroh dang02:53
azonenberg_labActually its not loose *cards*02:53
azonenberg_labits the pcie power connectors02:53
azonenberg_labanyway so the tip was electrolytically etched02:54
Harold_parkerso the tip is define by anode position?02:55
Harold_parkerfuck i wish i knew my chemistry :(02:55
azonenberg_labThe tip is the anode, and the mechanism for sharpening is a mix of bubbles being dragged along the sides by surface tension02:56
azonenberg_laband etch products falling down02:56
Harold_parkerawesome man :D02:57
Harold_parkerthats fuckin awesome02:57
azonenberg_labYou saw my lift-off patterning test i assume?02:58
Harold_parkerprobably, i've been away for 1.5 weeks02:58
Harold_parkerso if it was before then??02:58
Harold_parkeri remember some tests just before i went away02:58
Harold_parkerand you were mapping edge characteristics02:59
azonenberg_labThis was after baking, it looked better before02:59
azonenberg_labhardmask was too thick and it cracked02:59
azonenberg_labafter the etch it disintegrated02:59
Harold_parkerstill, looks nice man02:59
Harold_parkerwhats the scale?02:59
azonenberg_labhttp://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-19/S7300899.JPG was before baking02:59
azonenberg_lablines in the font are around 20um03:00
azonenberg_labI didnt have my calibrated camera set up for these shots03:00
azonenberg_labjust my point&shoot on the eyepiece03:00
Harold_parkerdude this is awesome03:00
Harold_parkerso that fullstop would be like...4um03:01
azonenberg_labThe lines are 20um wide03:01
azonenberg_labI was using a large process size for debugging03:01
azonenberg_labi can hit 5um lines in photoresist on a good day but the rest of the process isnt able to keep up03:02
Harold_parkerahhh yes03:02
Harold_parkeri see03:02
azonenberg_labTODO for the weekend lol03:03
azonenberg_labI want to get a pattern of some sort, even if on a giant 50um process, etched in <100> Si with KOH and Ta2O5 hardmask03:03
azonenberg_labOnce i get adequate yields in that, i can start shrinking03:03
Harold_parkeryeah nice03:05
Harold_parkerby yields you mean resolution?03:05
azonenberg_labno, i mean things not chipping off in the etch and giving me blank dies :P03:06
Harold_parkerahh yep03:06
Harold_parkerwhat do you think is causing that?03:06
azonenberg_labIn that one? Hardmask was too thick03:07
azonenberg_labThe problem is that the hardmask is spin coated over photoresist (lift off process) in an ethanol solution03:07
azonenberg_labmy photoresist is slightly soluble in ethanol03:07
azonenberg_labas you can probably imagine that doesnt end well :P03:07
azonenberg_labWorkaround is to drop the hardmask on and immediately spin up really fast03:08
azonenberg_labbut that reduces consistency and its easy to get too thin or thick a layer03:08
azonenberg_labI have ideas but havent experimented with them yet03:08
Harold_parkerahhh yep03:13
Harold_parkeri getcha03:13
Harold_parkeri'll be eager to see what you find03:13
CIA-67homecmos r91 | trunk/lithography-tests/labnotes/azonenberg_labnotes.txt | Today's lab notes.03:20
azonenberg_labHmm, this should be fun03:46
azonenberg_labgoing to try soldering one of these probes to a copper wire03:46
azonenberg_laband using it03:46
Harold_parkerhow's it performing?03:50
Harold_parkerusing on decapped?03:50
azonenberg_labGoing to, yes03:50
azonenberg_labi have a 12f683 i pwned a while ago with uv03:50
azonenberg_labgonna pop it in a breadboard and see how it goes03:51
azonenberg_labjust have to get firmware on it03:51
azonenberg_labi'll just be hitting bond pads as thats what i intended thse probes for03:51
azonenberg_labbut if that works i'll go to town :P03:51
Harold_parkeryeah man03:54
Harold_parkerfuckin nice!!03:54
Action: azonenberg fires up vmware box with mplab on it03:58
azonenberggaah, i have too many vms04:01
azonenbergcant remember which one it is :p04:01
azonenbergHere we go *looks at blinking light*04:03
azonenberglets make this a bit slower so i can probe it with something slow04:09
Action: azonenberg lacks a working DSO atm04:09
azonenbergon the to-get list04:09
azonenberg_labSetting it up... here goes04:20
azonenberg_labaww, bent the tip04:25
azonenberg_labEven bent, its more than sharp enough to hit the target though04:25
azonenbergPics coming soon04:36
azonenbergHarold_parker: http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-24/S7300935.JPG04:49
azonenbergI dont have a proper illuminator so i just used the lamp04:49
azonenbergThere were some shadowing issues but it worked decently well04:49
azonenberghere's a close up of the chuck area with the breadboard on it http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-24/S7300936.JPG04:50
Harold_parkerawwwwwwwa awww awww awwwwwwww yeah :D04:50
Harold_parkernice man04:50
azonenberg http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-24/S7300937.JPG moving the probe into place04:50
Harold_parkerthat looks04:50
Harold_parkerfuckin awesome :D04:50
azonenbergand http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-24/S7300939.JPG is hitting it at 60x04:51
azonenbergBad lighting but you can see i'm htiting the pad04:51
Harold_parkeroh yeah04:51
Harold_parkerfuckin nice mate!!04:51
Harold_parkerthis is so cool04:51
azonenbergthis is the most my scope can hit atm (stereozoom 4, 3x objective * 20x eyepiece = 60x)04:51
azonenbergi'll be doubling it with a better objective shortly04:52
azonenbergBut since the intended purpose of the unit is wafer test and not RE i should be fine04:52
azonenbergWhen i have the budget for an FS60, of course, all bets are off :P04:52
azonenberg*drools at thought of 100x LWD objective*04:52
azonenbergAnd its not like i need to probe the 683 anyway lol04:52
Harold_parkeri suppose you can attain soooome digital zooming with enough res in the photos?04:52
azonenbergits easy to pwn with uv04:52
Harold_parkerahh nice04:53
Harold_parkerthe pic?04:53
azonenbergYeah, i did it a few months ago on the other die from this same batch04:53
azonenbergNote how overkill this needle is for this magnification though lol04:53
azonenbergi need more zoom to even see the tip :p04:53
Harold_parkerahhhh yeh serious04:54
Harold_parkerfor interior proving it might be good though?04:54
azonenbergThe intention is wafer test04:54
Harold_parkeroh yeah!!04:54
Last message repeated 1 time(s).04:54
azonenberghitting bond pads for the customer's new gadget to see if it works04:54
azonenbergbefore wasting time and $$ packaging them up04:55
azonenbergAnd i've hit targets of the same size on the 683 so its definitely adequate04:55
Harold_parkeraye yep04:55
azonenbergConveniently that also means it's good enough for testing my devices too ;)04:55
Harold_parkerahhh nice04:55
Harold_parkerahaha yes04:55
Harold_parkerindeed :D04:55
Harold_parkerquite so!!04:55
azonenbergBest part? Client paid for it so the whole rig cost me nothing04:55
Harold_parkernow that is gold04:55
Harold_parkerwhat is the product/04:55
azonenbergNDA, sorry04:56
Harold_parkerhah nice04:56
Harold_parkerhow much was that micropositioner?05:01
azonenberg125 a pop05:02
azonenbergon ebay05:02
azonenbergDirt cheap as they go, i wasnt expecting a S926 or similar lol05:02
azonenbergits rated for 5um targets so my tips are already several times more precise than it needs05:02
azonenbergDoesnt stop me from wanting to do better of course05:04
berndji didn't know that the DMCA applied in singapore13:43
bart416berndj, it doesn't as far as I know13:54
berndjwhich is why i don't get how B0101 was getting DMCA takedown notices on his singapore host?14:02
bart416oh they try14:02
bart416They try hard14:02
bart416Mind you, if you live in the SU they'll still try to get to you14:02
bart416I mean I live in Belgium, and I get DMCA notices for a server in Sweden...14:03
bart416They don't even bother to check the country you live in14:03
berndjazonenberg, sorry to keep harping on about that uni STM project, but IIRC they (he?) made their probe by just pulling a lamp filament until it broke; with near certainty the break site would have a 1-atom tip *somewhere*14:03
bart416They just send the DMCA notices and threaten to sue14:03
berndjso ray gordon of them!14:03
bart416They usually shut up after you tell them you live outside the US14:04
bart416well for a week at least14:04
bart416Now I have a mail filter that redirects all mails with DMCA or the common takedown template to /dev/null14:04
bart416Saves me time and worries14:05
berndjyou should get them on SORBS14:05
berndjmindboggling that he got takedown notice on his own lab notes!14:06
bart416oh fun14:06
bart416At least in our case it's somewhat logical that they try to push DMCA takedown notices for DCC servers >_>14:06
berndji thought sending fake takedown notices was a pretty serious offence14:06
bart416What was in the lab notes?14:06
bart416linky to them please14:07
berndji dunno what B0101 is up to14:07
bart416Wouldn't be amazed if some publisher tried it14:07
bart416If there's a solution to one of their exercises in it14:07
bart416They did the same thing with students making answer databases in the US14:08
berndjit's a good reason to officially register your copyrights - then statutory (rather than just actual) damages kick in14:08
berndjthat rings a bell... schaum's outline series maybe?14:08
bart416Nah, not schaum's14:08
bart416Schaum's doesn't seem to give a fuck14:08
berndjhmm. but i vaguely recall something about schaum's too14:09
bart416We published all the solutions to every single question in schaum's outline of signals and systems on the internet somewhere14:09
bart416We never got a single response on it14:09
bart416In fact most people don't even bother to check it (even those that need it)14:09
berndjmaybe they have sane / ethical lawyers and/or same for execs14:10
berndjthis whole patent / copyright trolling this is so dirty14:10
berndji'm really glad i don't live in a very litigous society14:10
Action: bart416 can't wait to get a DMCA takedown notice for http://ieatbirds.info/mechanica2.pdf14:11
berndji keep telling azonenberg he should come do his work in .za then he can just pour used HF et al straight down the sink :)14:12
bart416Or maybe for http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27788352/Mechanica%20II_%20Thermodynamica%20Oefeningen.pdf14:12
bart416That's more DMCA worthy since that are solved exercises14:12
bart416I should really get around to scanning in all my old notes and exercises and putting them online14:12
bart416berndj, who would want to live in .za :p14:14
berndjheh.  meh, i like it here14:14
bart416Dunno, my current plan is to work for about 30-40 years and then move to some desolated place in vietnam or something like that14:15
berndjif you believe in those climate models i saw a map yesterday that suggested you'd want to invest in uruguay14:16
bart416My problem with Africa is the average mentality of the people who live there14:17
berndjyeah, african states have this predatory tendency14:17
bart416More like lazy14:17
bart416Pretty much all the Africans who move here seem to care about two things: Living of social security and screwing 5 women at once14:18
bart416And for every single one of them that isn't like that, there are 50 who are14:19
berndjhaha, where is this "here" btw?14:19
bart416They're really fucking up our social security system the way they're acting14:19
berndjwe get some of that too - ppl coming here from all over the rest of africa, but we seem to attract mostly the industrious subset14:20
bart416Heh, for me the contrast is even bigger14:20
berndjwhich breeds envy, and sporadically erupts into a variation of kristallnacht14:20
bart416I live in a small village where over half the population is made up out of asian immigrants...14:20
berndjanyway labour is fairly cheap here14:22
bart416Most labour got shipped off to east europe, heh14:22
berndjso when we dig a new cable route we do it with a line of 50 men, not a single backhoe in sight14:22
berndjhmm, electronics + cheap labour: i wonder if anyone's ever tried building a human computer14:23
berndjlike a relay computer, but using humans as the switching elements14:23
bart416Lets try it!14:23
bart416Just duct tape them to a wall14:23
bart416and if they make mistakes they don't get food for a day14:24
berndjok, just get 2000 people on a football field, we can build a 400414:24
berndjwould you treat a transistor like that???14:24
berndjthere are now more transistors than ants14:25
berndjany i gtg buy some tomatoes before the shop closes14:25
bart416<berndj> would you treat a transistor like that??? <-- lazy people who don't contribute to society are less than ants for me14:44
--- Sat Jun 25 201100:00

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