| azonenberg_lab | hi B0101, sorry i missed you earlier | 01:20 |
|---|---|---|
| azonenberg_lab | What were you saying about a logo? | 01:20 |
| B0101 | I made a logo for my Chip Fab unit. I wanted you to tell me your opinion about my logo | 01:21 |
| azonenberg_lab | sure (though i freely admit i suck at artistic stuff) | 01:22 |
| B0101 | lol, give me a second | 01:22 |
| azonenberg_lab | Lol i gotta clean up after this experiment anyway, i'll be a minute or two | 01:22 |
| B0101 | If you're back, heres the link: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=4282 | 01:28 |
| azonenberg_lab | Ok, sec | 01:29 |
| azonenberg_lab | Switching to my other computer | 01:29 |
| azonenberg | Back | 01:31 |
| B0101 | ok | 01:31 |
| azonenberg | Animated? Not bad | 01:31 |
| azonenberg | A little flashy for my liking though | 01:31 |
| azonenberg | what's RRF stand for? | 01:31 |
| azonenberg | rm -rf? :P | 01:31 |
| B0101 | no | 01:32 |
| B0101 | I'll tell you what it stands for in a moment | 01:33 |
| CIA-67 | homecmos r90 | trunk/lithography-tests/labnotes/azonenberg_labnotes.txt | Today's lab notes | 01:35 |
| azonenberg | So today I made some experimental microprobes | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | getting dimensions off the pics now | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | They're sharp, that much is obvious | 01:36 |
| azonenberg | Let's see - shank kis 406 microns / 233 pixels, which makes this image 1.742 microns per pixel | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | Middle part is 52 pixels, which is 90 um | 01:37 |
| azonenberg | Then in the high res image the middle is 90 um / 491 pix = 183 nm/pixel | 01:38 |
| azonenberg | And the tip is somewhere under 13 pixels (2.3 um) across | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | The image was a bit blurred though | 01:39 |
| azonenberg | so it might even be sharper | 01:39 |
| B0101 | Oh | 01:40 |
| azonenberg | In any case it's most definitely sharp enough to hit anything i can make on this process, with room to spare | 01:40 |
| B0101 | Ok | 01:41 |
| B0101 | going back... RRF stands for the first letter of my brother's friends | 01:42 |
| azonenberg | Ah, i see | 01:42 |
| azonenberg | So the bunch of you are your own little hackerspace? | 01:43 |
| B0101 | nope. used to be good friends... but because of an argument... we broke off | 01:44 |
| B0101 | RRF = Rusydi, Royce, Feng Qiang | 01:44 |
| azonenberg | Ah | 01:45 |
| B0101 | I only joined in last year | 01:46 |
| B0101 | They liked doing software | 01:46 |
| azonenberg | And you started pushing toward hardware? | 01:46 |
| B0101 | It was Royce who started pushing towards hardware | 01:46 |
| B0101 | I only joined to help out with my brother | 01:48 |
| azonenberg | i see | 01:48 |
| B0101 | If you look at my logo, you might notice a zero detect circuit | 01:53 |
| azonenberg | I just see five test points | 01:53 |
| B0101 | Did you see that if you go down the test points, you will see 4 lines? | 01:54 |
| azonenberg | Yeah | 01:55 |
| B0101 | thats the zero detect circuit | 01:55 |
| azonenberg | But i see no interconnection | 01:55 |
| B0101 | my logo was based on a portion of my brothers 4 bit relay computer | 01:56 |
| azonenberg | oh, i see | 01:56 |
| B0101 | it was a very small portion of the whole circuit | 01:56 |
| azonenberg | I figured as much | 01:57 |
| B0101 | do you know VHDL? | 02:09 |
| azonenberg | B0101: Not yet, i've been studying verilog though | 02:09 |
| berndj | VHDL reminds me too much of cobol | 02:19 |
| berndj | OR SIGNAL TO B GIVING B | 02:20 |
| azonenberg | Lol, to me it looks like Ada | 02:20 |
| berndj | azonenberg, does glade come with a simulator? | 02:20 |
| azonenberg | berndj: It's a pure low-level layout tool | 02:21 |
| berndj | (i know neither ada nor cobol, really, i'll take your word for it) | 02:21 |
| azonenberg | Extraction is done via python scripts (they have an example script for a hypothetical 150nm process) | 02:21 |
| berndj | any other layout tools you've tried? | 02:21 |
| azonenberg | LayoutEditor but it sucks | 02:21 |
| B0101 | berndj: I tried programming in COBOL before... I can only say something | 02:22 |
| berndj | i've tried half a handful and so far is the one that sucks least | 02:22 |
| azonenberg | so far glade is? | 02:22 |
| azonenberg | Yeah, it has some segfaults but is otherwise pretty decent | 02:22 |
| berndj | *and so far magic is | 02:22 |
| azonenberg | Oh, magic | 02:22 |
| B0101 | berndj: Its a SIN to teach COBOL | 02:22 |
| berndj | i don't mean to sound like i'm pushing it | 02:22 |
| berndj | B0101, not so long ago i knew a guy who was taking a cobol course | 02:23 |
| azonenberg | No, i want inputs from a lot of people | 02:23 |
| azonenberg | Preferably people who have tried >1 tool | 02:23 |
| azonenberg | and can provide a reasonable argumetn as to why one is better than the other for a given purpose | 02:23 |
| berndj | i've "tried" >1, but for a loose definition of "tried" | 02:24 |
| azonenberg | Asking people in industry will get you nowhere because most of them are using cadence or synopsys | 02:24 |
| azonenberg | which are nice but insanely expensive | 02:24 |
| berndj | mostly, it was, "started the program and couldn't figure out wtf to do then gave up" | 02:24 |
| azonenberg | Lol yeah | 02:24 |
| berndj | which was the case with electric and that french thing whose name i forget | 02:24 |
| azonenberg | glade is the only one i found intuitive enough to actually use | 02:24 |
| azonenberg | alliance? Its a pain | 02:24 |
| berndj | yes, alliance | 02:25 |
| berndj | looked potentially very pretty, but it gave me the same emotional experience vi did when i first met it | 02:25 |
| berndj | (i've since made friends with vi) | 02:25 |
| azonenberg | lol | 02:26 |
| berndj | magic is kinda old-school; the gui is more like a convenience, rather than the primary interface | 02:26 |
| azonenberg | yeah | 02:26 |
| azonenberg | Glade looks like it could be a really nice tool | 02:26 |
| azonenberg | If only it didnt segfault so much :P | 02:26 |
| berndj | it's very strongly focused on its command line, but of course there are sensible gui action mappings | 02:26 |
| berndj | oh, glade is free as in beer but not speech? that'd be why i never saw it / checked it out | 02:29 |
| azonenberg | berndj: Yes | 02:30 |
| azonenberg | Source would be nice | 02:30 |
| azonenberg | But its a step in the right direction compared to, say, synopsys | 02:30 |
| wolfspraul | azonenberg: have you heard about the Fedora Electronics Lab Chitlesh Goorah was maintaining for a while? | 02:52 |
| wolfspraul | the goal of that project was to bring together good IC design related free software | 02:52 |
| wolfspraul | he has slowed down a bit since early this year, but the project is still out there | 02:52 |
| wolfspraul | oh right, he calls it 'Free Electronics Lab' now because he is moving away from Fedora dependence and wants to also support RedHat Linux I think | 02:55 |
| wolfspraul | here's a list of software in FEL: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/list.html | 02:57 |
| wolfspraul | and Chitlesh's blog http://chitlesh.wordpress.com/ | 02:57 |
| azonenberg | wolfspraul: back | 03:22 |
| azonenberg | and nice | 03:22 |
| azonenberg | wolfspraul: Did you see my pics from today's lab session? Made a tungsten probe tip with a ~1500nm point radius | 03:49 |
| azonenberg | http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-22/, 910 and later (909 and before were misfiled and actually were a day or two ago) | 03:49 |
| wolfspraul | I was planning to write a little eulogy on your beautiful pictures soon | 03:53 |
| wolfspraul | so I haven't seen the 06-22 ones yet, but I really do like the series | 03:53 |
| azonenberg | wolfspraul: Eulogy? Like a funeral speech? | 03:54 |
| azonenberg | :p | 03:54 |
| wolfspraul | I downloaded them all with wget -r :-) | 03:54 |
| wolfspraul | ah sorry wrong word probably :-) | 03:54 |
| wolfspraul | not a native speaker | 03:54 |
| azonenberg | I figured as much | 03:54 |
| wolfspraul | "eulogy is a speech or writing in praise of a person or thing, especially one recently deceased or retired" | 03:55 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 03:55 |
| wolfspraul | I meant the first part... | 03:55 |
| azonenberg | I see | 03:55 |
| wolfspraul | no but seriously those pics are awesome | 03:55 |
| azonenberg | well, any analysis or constructive criticism is welcome | 03:55 |
| wolfspraul | I like to open up a process and make it interesting for people to peek into your lab | 03:55 |
| azonenberg | You have my lab notes, you have the photos | 03:55 |
| azonenberg | the more interesting you can make it sound, the better | 03:55 |
| azonenberg | more people interested = more people providing suggestions and maybe running experiments too | 03:56 |
| wolfspraul | I only have a small audience of maybe a few hundred people that really listen to me, but I will try to get my amazement at your work across to them... | 03:56 |
| azonenberg | no worries | 03:56 |
| azonenberg | Just dont expect the awesome to stop any time soon lol | 03:56 |
| azonenberg | I'll be popping these probes and some previous dies under a SEM in the near future to get some close-ups | 03:57 |
| azonenberg | and hopefully help diagnose my hardmask troubles a little better | 03:59 |
| azonenberg | hi R0b0t1 | 06:02 |
| R0b0t1 | Hello. | 06:02 |
| R0b0t1 | I now idle here :3 | 06:02 |
| R0b0t1 | I'd be happy to join in, but it would seem I first need a microscope (and some money for wafers). | 06:03 |
| azonenberg | As of now i'm the only one doing fab, though B0101 plans to start up a lab soon | 06:03 |
| azonenberg | The rest are just providing useful suggestions | 06:03 |
| azonenberg | I hope that will change eventually, we're trying to get more people involved | 06:03 |
| R0b0t1 | :D | 06:05 |
| lekernel | excellent pics indeed | 07:56 |
| lekernel | http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/images/homecmos/2011-06-22/S7300909.JPG this is great | 07:56 |
| bart416 | that looks pretty good indeed | 08:01 |
| azonenberg | lekernel: That one was showing the last few problems with my exposure system | 14:02 |
| azonenberg | Notice the uneven lighting | 14:02 |
| azonenberg | I think i will need a double exposure to get something etchable out of that | 14:03 |
| azonenberg | But it's pretty close | 14:12 |
| azonenberg | The issue i am having now is getting good yields with the hardmask | 14:12 |
| azonenberg | Wet etching fails due to HF permeating my photoresist (longer hardbake may help there so I am not giving up entirely, I may also want to try another resist) | 14:13 |
| azonenberg | And liftoff is proving difficult to get good yield with | 14:13 |
| azonenberg | Partly because the solvent in the hardmask solution slowly attacks photoresist and therefore needs to be coated very quickly to prevent damage | 14:13 |
| bart416 | azonenberg, | 20:55 |
| bart416 | <leeeeee> Google translated page direct link .. http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbomba-de-difusion-en-acero-inoxidable%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&u=http://sites.google.com/site/skygaps/vacio/bomba-de-difusion-en-acero-inoxidable&usg=ALkJrhgSsKU-BZat30dCZq4YsnMl0XrtrQ | 20:55 |
| bart416 | ^just in ##electronics | 20:55 |
| azonenberg | I'd be using high vacuum oil, not mercury | 23:02 |
| azonenberg | But it looks quite interesting | 23:03 |
| R0b0t1 | J/w does ##electronics have some odd flags set on it? I can rarely ever join, although that might (for some reason) partially be my client. | 23:30 |
| azonenberg | You have to be identified with nickserv before joining | 23:31 |
| R0b0t1 | Yeah... I finally got in. Dunno what's up *shrug* | 23:31 |
| --- Fri Jun 24 2011 | 00:00 | |
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